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Huge far-right, white supremacist rallies scheduled to be held across Australia on August 31st (4 Viewers)

Far-right ‘March for Australia’ rallies on August 31


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SylviaB

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sylvia are you going done to protest?
No, I just think it's hilarious how the same people who fall over themselves to defend china would call Australia a fascist nazi country if we replicated their actual policies on things like immigration, race, 'diversity' etc.

And the usual cope argument is that Chinese are in their 'native lands' and that Australia is a product of colonziation, despite the fact that the dominant ethnic group that makes up the overwhelming majority of all powerful instituions in china are actually only native to a tiny little stretch of china and aquired the rest through conquest.
 

SylviaB

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Didn't say china wasn't lmao 😭
ive literally never seen anyone in the left in Australia be remotely critical of china before

And unlike these douchebags holding a little ret*rd rally in australia, the chinese government is at worst the second most powerful institution in the world
 

enoilgam

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Yeah man, this is a totally reasonable thing to say in a country where the government is unwilling to even discuss cutting immigration at all
We should be discussing it 100%, it is in need of reform so we can get the balance right. I think if we get immigration policy right it can be hugely beneficial (what that is, I do not know, smarter people than me should be involved). We also need to get the lobby groups out of immigration, as I think they drive a lot of decisions in this area (it doesnt come from governments in my view given how unpopular immigration is overall).

I just think if we stop 90% of immigration today, I dont think it will have the dramatic effect people expect in the future. On the positive side, I think that house prices will plateau and the pressure on services will ease (transport, healthcare etc). However, at the same time I think there could be negative issues with growth and significant worker shortages in key industries (especially healthcare/aged/disability care, which we need going forward given the ageing population). These negatives could have all sorts of flow on effects with inflation and even unemployment (especially if worker skills dont match demand). Im not saying this from an ideology perspective, (I'm neither here nor there on immigration) just looking at this from a pragmatic perspective. Government policy is the land of unintended consequences and I see some huge risks for that with stopping immigration completely.

Oddly enough, if we did stop immigration completely I think the country would become a lot more progressive. People across the spectrum (mainly white people) dont really understand just how conservative immigrants are compared to the white population. Having grown up surrounded by immigrant communities and now being engaged to a white Aussie, one is infinitely more conservative than the other (in particular socially conservative).
 

SylviaB

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...effortlessly?
Most of the world easily came under the control of Europeans despite the europeans travelling across the world on ships. It's not as if Europeans invaded by land and spent years or decades trying to conquer them.
 

SylviaB

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(it doesnt come from governments in my view given how unpopular immigration is overall) (it doesnt come from governments in my view given how unpopular immigration is overall)
Of course it does. Labor LOVES immigrants, and voters like labor (or hate the coalition) enough that even if they're not keen on immigrants, Labor dominates in the election.

And part of the reason they love immigration other than serving special interests is the fact that most immigrants become labor voters, which means enough immigration for long enough and Labor just win politics forever. It doesn't mean labor wins every election everwhere always, but if the coalition continue to be a viable major party, it will be significantly because they had to shift their policies to be closer to labor's, so labor still wins in this regard. It's already happening now under Ley.

I just think if we stop 90% of immigration today, I dont think it will have the dramatic effect people expect in the future. On the positive side, I think that house prices will plateau and the pressure on services will ease (transport, healthcare etc). However, at the same time I think there could be negative issues with growth and significant worker shortages in key industries (especially healthcare/aged/disability care, which we need going forward given the ageing population). These negatives could have all sorts of flow on effects with inflation and even unemployment (especially if worker skills dont match demand). Im not saying this from an ideology perspective, (I'm neither here nor there on immigration) just looking at this from a pragmatic perspective. Government policy is the land of unintended consequences and I see some huge risks for that with stopping immigration completely.
If we need specific workers, bring those workers in.

Better yet, we can offer temporary work programs for countries like the philipines, thailand, vietnam etc. to fill many of these roles, paying them more per year than they would as permanent residents but saving the country money long term. Special accomodation could be constructed and provided to them too in many areas to attract them and lessen the burdern on the conventional housing market.

But bringing in unlimited dudes from india is only going to make the effects of an aging population worse. These men are are unlikely to result in a net increase in Australia's fertility rate, but most of them will eventually become elderly people. This means long term the dependency ratio gets worse, and you need even higher rates of immigration to make up for it. The population ponzi scheme.

These negatives could have all sorts of flow on effects with inflation and even unemployment (especially if worker skills dont match demand). Im not saying this from an ideology perspective, (I'm neither here nor there on immigration) just looking at this from a pragmatic perspective. Government policy is the land of unintended consequences and I see some huge risks for that with stopping immigration completely.
People say immigrants don't hurt wages, but then somehow less people means more inflation, and so the explanation would have to be that wages would rise without those immigrants due to a "shortage" of workers.

Rents and house prices would be cheaper and rental properties more available, it's hard to see anything else offsetting the positive impact of this. And it's one thing to say that population growth has been a net benefit over the past 25 years, but it's kind of insane to suggest that Australia's population just has to grow indefinitely. And very few people want to stop immigration entirely. But if we're making working Australians compete with other people for housing and physical/social infrastructure, it should be to fill important jobs facing genuine shortages. Not uber eats.

Oddly enough, if we did stop immigration completely I think the country would become a lot more progressive. People across the spectrum (mainly white people) dont really understand just how conservative immigrants are compared to the white population. Having grown up surrounded by immigrant communities and now being engaged to a white Aussie, one is infinitely more conservative than the other (in particular socially conservative).
Conservative in a particular sense, perhaps. But as seen even from this thread, they're also capable of being far-left a-holes who attack white people when its convenient to do so ("White people are evil colonizers who stole Australia from the aborigines but even though im living here I bear zero responsibliity for it"). And they also vote majority labor so any personal conservatism doesn't extend into politics. And i's hard to know how whatever conservatism they have actually influences anything. Not like there's groups of Indian guys going around harassing gays or something.

Also, stopping immigration wouldn't make the country more progressive even if what you're saying is correct. It would stop the rate at which it becomes more progressive. Stopping immigration doesn't reduce how many immigrants are currently here.

Though even then, it's hard to see this 'conservatism' really persiting beyond a generation except for muslims.
 

Slayon

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If we need specific workers, bring those workers in.

Better yet, we can offer temporary work programs for countries like the philipines, thailand, vietnam etc. to fill many of these roles, paying them more per year than they would as permanent residents but saving the country money long term. Special accomodation could be constructed and provided to them too in many areas to attract them and lessen the burdern on the conventional housing market.

But bringing in unlimited dudes from india is only going to make the effects of an aging population worse. These men are are unlikely to result in a net increase in Australia's fertility rate, but most of them will eventually become elderly people. This means long term the dependency ratio gets worse, and you need even higher rates of immigration to make up for it. The population ponzi scheme.
I believe we have an immigration initiative for certain skills - these skills that most Australians aren't taking up.

Furthermore, in Austrlia we have temporary work visas for the category you describe, such as seasonal fruit pickers.

People in Australia don't want kids. We're at an ultimatum - either allow the population to crash at this rate or bring in immigrants.The fertility rate isn;t going to increase since most Australians are living comfortable lives - lives that children would ruin. Children cost too much. The housing market it strained.

Ideally Australians will start having more kids. This could happen if we have free childcare. This is mainly appealing to the high-earning demographic of Australians. Inversely, we start paying families to have kids. Similar to the initiative around the 2010s. Generally money is a big issue. Old people are too, if only they'd disapear after retirement. Immigration is an important part of the Australian economy, that's undeniable. However, is the housing issues is so bad, instead of attacking people who will LIVE in these subpar houses shouldn't we consider the foreign investors taking up a considerable amount of homes and artificially inflating rent? Labour is bringing is more immigrants because it's a WORKING party, and guess what immigrants do, WORK hard. Only the majority of Australians immigrants have initiative to work rather than taking their lives for granted. Not only do immigrants have to deal with racism, they have to live their lives as second-class citizens. Instead of attacking immigrants this about the true blue "Aussies" who live off Centrelink, who take away from the economy, and also think immigration is bs. These individuals live off the wages of immigrants yet choose to attack them. Why are 20% of Australians on Centrelink? `Why is the majority of these people unwilling to get a job? Well don't blame the immigrants because Australians are too lazy, immigrants are taking up the unwanted jobs.
 

enoilgam

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People in Australia don't want kids. We're at an ultimatum - either allow the population to crash at this rate or bring in immigrants.The fertility rate isn;t going to increase since most Australians are living comfortable lives - lives that children would ruin. Children cost too much. The housing market it strained.
Slightly off topic, but this is a really good point. I dont think that "money" or "cost" are primary factors for the declining birthrate in Australia. Looking at friends and family my theory is it is more to do with boredom or the lack thereof. Contrary to media opinion, a lot of young Australians are better off than previous generations. They earn good money, are more educated, have solid careers and more options for entertainment (holidays, hobbies etc). So for these people, children are more unappealing because they will take time/focus away from these things. In contrast, I think people who are less well off generally have less going on so having kids is an escape from the boredom. I look in my orbit (family, friends, acquaintances) and generally speaking, the people who dont want to have kids sit in a higher socio-economic bracket then the people who do have kids.

Even speaking from personal experience, my partner and I could easily afford kids, but Im not really sold on it simply because of the time commitment and the impact on my life overall. I have enough going on that I dont really feel the need for a kid.

This is just an observation, so take it with a grain of salt.
 

Tony Stark

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Most of the world easily came under the control of Europeans despite the europeans travelling across the world on ships. It's not as if Europeans invaded by land and spent years or decades trying to conquer them.
Ah yes, shooting guns at defenceless women and children is a clear sign of superiority. Not to mention the men with their melee weapons.
 

SylviaB

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I believe we have an immigration initiative for certain skills - these skills that most Australians aren't taking up.
Firstly, that's mostly not what immigration is today.

Second, we need a lot construction workers, but they mostly aren't coming in because the government is in cahoots with the unions to prevent them having to compete with foreign workers.

Third, "they aren't taking up" mostly because wages aren't given a chance to rise to attract people because of immigrants. Australians will do any number of different jobs, and in a normal system wages adjust to move labor to where it's needed.

Furthermore, in Austrlia we have temporary work visas for the category you describe, such as seasonal fruit pickers.
I mean for things that supposedly need doing by people permanently immigrating here, like aged care.

People in Australia don't want kids. We're at an ultimatum - either allow the population to crash at this rate or bring in immigrants.The fertility rate isn;t going to increase since most Australians are living comfortable lives - lives that children would ruin. Children cost too much. The housing market it strained.
I've already explained why this is total bullshit. Immigrants aren't having significantly more kids than Australians, and if you grow the population through immigration of people who don't meaningfully increase the net birth rate (i.e. male immigrants), this INCREASES the dependency ratio over time and you will have even more old people that need to be maintained relative to young workers, which means immigration would have to increase indefinitely to provide enough young workers to care/pay for the ever increasing number of old people.

And there is no "ultimatum". This is not why we have so much immigration. We have immigration because it benefits financial and political interests. Australia's population without immigration isn't facing any kind of imminent collapse. It would peak and slowly decline, and would happen slowly enough that it could be managed, especially with technological advances that will allow countries to do more with less. But again, 'population collapse' isn't even the motivation for Australia's very high immigration rate.

Additionally, one of the main reason young Australians avoid or delay children is because they cannot afford to buy a house. They either have to rent a house or buy or rent an apartment. Housing unaffordability (buy or rent), uncertainty (renting) and housing density (apartments/units) all strongly predict low fertility. And the reason why houses are so scarce and so expensive is because the population has ballooned by millions of people in relatively short time.

Immigration is an important part of the Australian economy, that's undeniable. However, is the housing issues is so bad, instead of attacking people who will LIVE in these subpar houses shouldn't we consider the foreign investors taking up a considerable amount of homes and artificially inflating rent?
Population growth has has a vastly greater impact on housing affordability and availability than foreign investors. The fact that they're "LIVING" in these houses is why it's so hard and expensive to buy a house. It's not something positive they're doing. And nobody's more againt foreign ownership than me, but they can only buy new properties, they can't buy up existing stock. And their ownership is often for themselves or their children to live in, so it's not even meaningfully different to immigrants consuming housing stock anyway, the thing you said wasn't a problem.

Labour is bringing is more immigrants because it's a WORKING party, and guess what immigrants do, WORK hard.
No dumb dumb. It's supposed to be a party for workers, as in AUSTRALIAN workers. Flooding the country with immigrants is BAD for Australian workers, which is why corporations support it, why property investors and developers support it etc. Why would wages ever meaningfully increase if you can just bring in a million people from India who will take the job at lower pay? It's making rich australians richer at the expense of everyone else, and Labor does it because they end up voting Labor.

Only the majority of Australians immigrants have initiative to work rather than taking their lives for granted.
How embarassing for all these hard-working foreigners that inferior Australians built a better country in a century or two than they and their ancestors could in thousands of years!

Not only do immigrants have to deal with racism, they have to live their lives as second-class citizens.
You cry about "racism" right after declaring Australians are lazy and inferior to immigrants. Fuck off lmao.

Instead of attacking immigrants this about the true blue "Aussies" who live off Centrelink
I wasn't aware if we were deciding to bring in more white people to use centerlink. You know, the way we bring in hundreds of thousands of immigrants a year?

who take away from the economy, and also think immigration is bs. These individuals live off the wages of immigrants
The vast majority of all net tax revenue in Australia is generated by white Australians. And you think Sudanese immigrants are working hard and not collecting welfare? lmao

yet choose to attack them. Why are 20% of Australians on Centrelink? `Why is the majority of these people unwilling to get a job? Well don't blame the immigrants because Australians are too lazy, immigrants are taking up the unwanted jobs.
Ah yes, just imagine how poor us dumb lazy white Australians would be without an army of brown people delivering uber eats! They're truly the foundation of our economy!

How sad that billions of these people can't build countries worth staying in, but are magically the reason Australia is prosperous even though we were prosperous long before they got here!
 

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