why is every degree and job ‘oversaturated’ now and why does everyone wanna be a finance bro (1 Viewer)

Interdice

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We're primarily a resource based economy. The amount of resources produced does not scale with population, so population growth dilutes the resources per citizen.
Exactly. Australia is pretty much a glorified African nation. Services always outearns digging shit out the ground. You know who elsedigs shit out the ground? Africa.

Do you want to work as a miner/farmer in the middle of bumfuck.

And "boosting tech/STEM" is 100% not close to the reason for the vast majority of immigration to Australia today. It's to provide cheap labor for businesses, demand for housing for land lords/developers/banks, and votes for Labor.
Most immigrants to Australia, come on student visas, and are more like expats rather than immigrants. Foriegn citizens to PR are quite rare.

Correct on the rest though.
If the only way to get experienced people was by training up grads, companies would hire far more grads in the first place
Go to UNSW/USYD CS, how many of them are white? Training up the white grads isn't working lol.

I mean Australia is a fuckin prison continent, and all the Europeans in Australia, are the lowlives who wouldn't make it in Europe, from the first convicts, to the later Italians/Turks, who had to do crime to even survive.
 

SylviaB

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Exactly. Australia is pretty much a glorified African nation. Services always outearns digging shit out the ground. You know who elsedigs shit out the ground? Africa.

Do you want to work as a miner/farmer in the middle of bumfuck.
No, not exactly. We make our money from mining and agriculture. More people means this gets spread out amongst more people. Nigeria is a major oil and gas producer, but because its population is so large, it's very poor per capita.

Most immigrants to Australia, come on student visas, and are more like expats rather than immigrants. Foriegn citizens to PR are quite rare.
This includes Indians at diploma mills, they're not skilled workers or cognitivie elites

Correct on the rest though.

Go to UNSW/USYD CS, how many of them are white? Training up the white grads isn't working lol.
If there weren't non-whites studying it, there wouldn't be a surplus of graduates.

I mean Australia is a fuckin prison continent, and all the Europeans in Australia, are the lowlives who wouldn't make it in Europe, from the first convicts, to the later Italians/Turks, who had to do crime to even survive.
And yet Australia became one of the most prosperous socities in history before mass non-white immigration. Pretty embarassing for all those non-white countries that aren't "prison" countries.
 

Interdice

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It's ridiculous in HR seeing so many people being brought in from Britain when graduates have such a rough trot getting a role.
Who from Britain is getting a visa? Australia does not give points, to people if they're from a European country.

I hope you aren't getting pissy about the YMV, we get a far better deal from the UK, than they do from us. We can use the YMV until we're 35, and if we get then sponsored and stay legally in UK for 5 years, we'll get ILR.

Pretty good, considering salaries in the UK are higher, and the infrastructure being better. And the Muslims are doing a great job not making the UK faggot capital. 100% the superior country.

Im fine with immigration in fields where Australia is not producing enough graduates due to lack of interest from locals
No ur not.

We need more third world tradies to build houses/infrastrucure for $7.25 an hour. Look at the embarrasment in Melbourne which is the Metro Tunnel/Suburban loop. If we hired cheap tradies, both of those would be done now, and outer suburbs in Melbourne would become incredibly more viable.

Paying a tradie 200k to play Bob the Builder is plain retarded.
 

Interdice

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If there weren't non-whites studying it, there wouldn't be a surplus of graduates.
If there were only whites studying it, there would be no jobs for graduates, since it woudln't be profitable to open an office on martin street for 20 dudes.

I mean look at the pitiful state of the tech industry in Austrlaia. Atlassian/Canva/AWS/Microsoft are the only big tech employers. Google/Apple/Adobe and all the others only have satelite offices in Austrlaia.

And yet Australia became one of the most prosperous socities in history before mass non-white immigration
Cause Africa + South Asia + Hong Kong funded Australia. Without those places, there would be no Australia.

This includes Indians at diploma mills, they're not skilled workers or cognitivie elites
Very very true. These loopholes need to be patched.

BUT they're on temp visas thus are expats not immigrants.

We make our money from mining and agriculture
Government makes it's money from mining/agriculture. How much of it gets passed to you? Saudi has interest free mortgages, free uni, very low tax rate and a government stipend.
 

enoilgam

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No ur not.

We need more third world tradies to build houses/infrastrucure for $7.25 an hour. Look at the embarrasment in Melbourne which is the Metro Tunnel/Suburban loop. If we hired cheap tradies, both of those would be done now, and outer suburbs in Melbourne would become incredibly more viable.

Paying a tradie 200k to play Bob the Builder is plain retarded.
I dont disagree. The CFMEU has consistently lobbied the government to stop overseas trades coming in from overseas despite the fact that they are desperately needed. Im all for people making fair wages, but the wages in the trades are grossly overinflated due to a shortage of workers (because Australian's dont want to do that work) and because the government wont consider skilled migration. I dont want to see tradies making $7.50 an hour, but when a mechanic or plumber charge $150+ an hour, I think it's fair to say something is wrong (note, both quotes Ive received in the last 12 months).

Everything is a balancing act, the right balance is where immigrants plug shortages in the labour force where those shortages cannot be dealt with otherwise. If you get the balance right, you can ensure good wages and prevent inflation. Unfortunately, Australia's balance is completely out of whack and this is because we are subject to the whims of donors and lobbyists and not genuine economic needs.

Government makes it's money from mining/agriculture. How much of it gets passed to you? Saudi has interest free mortgages, free uni, very low tax rate and a government stipend.
That's because Australia outsources resource extraction and gets hosed by the private companies, who extract the minerals and keep the lions share of the profit (and still whinge about paying royalties). The Arab countries use government corporations to extract their resources and as a result they keep most of the profits. Again, another issue when you dont strictly control lobbying/corporate political donations and allow interests groups with deep pockets to unfairly dictate public policy (like unions, mining companies, environmental groups etc)..
 
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Interdice

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That's because Australia outsources resource extraction and gets hosed by the private companies, who extract the minerals and keep the lions share of the profit (and still whinge about paying royalties). The Arab countries use government corporations to extract their resources and as a result they keep most of the profits. Again, another issue when you dont strictly control lobbying/corporate political donations and allow interests groups with deep pockets to unfairly dictate public policy (like unions, mining companies, environmental groups etc)..
This is true. But Sylvia can't make the argument that "Australia has lots of natural resources, and and immigrants are diluting it" when corporations/foriegn governments are taking most of it.

For the everyday Australian, the abyssal finance/tech sector is FAR more important. Like I agree stop immigrants with Business/STEM degrees for a while, but if Australia wants to be a serious competitor to Singapore/SK/Japan, eventually(15 yeras down the line) more immigrants will be needed to advance Australia.

I dont want to see tradies making $7.50 an hour
Usually migrant workers have bills/rent/tax/food paid for by the company, and their income is theirs to save, to have a nice retirement back in whatever country they come from.

Yeah 7.5 is too low, but the wage doesn't need to be much higher than $17 honestly. IN the UAE/Singapore they make way less. IMO 6 days a week, 8 hour shifts with holidays is very fair.

because Australian's dont want to do that work
You're wrong about this. I went to an infamous bogan school, and they're very proud of it. I think 50% of the male kids joined trades. And the girls loved them being tradies for some reason. Weird that they get such high wages. In America it makes sense, cause there's a stigma around them but not here.



IMO Sydney is done. No more funds should be allocated to Sydney. The city cannot expand beyond Ku Ring Gai forest, and South and West Sydney are too far from the eastern CBD, even with the Metros. New city should be created in NSW. Like Nab, Westpac Atlassian and shit should be given tax breaks for opening offices in this city, and eventually the peopel will follow for low COL. Kinda like what happened with Austin Texas.

Melbourne is in such a sorry state. It used to be the business capital of Australia, and the richest city in the Empire, but now it honestly seems dead. Melbourne's land is much more suitible to support a large population, so funding should be given ASAP for Metros and proper infrastructure.
 

HazzRat

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No, not exactly. We make our money from mining and agriculture. More people means this gets spread out amongst more people. Nigeria is a major oil and gas producer, but because its population is so large, it's very poor per capita.
Not every form of wealth comes from the ground, though. Japan, Switzerland, Singapore, Belgium, and South Korea are all countries with very little natural resources but are wealthy developed countries.
 

SylviaB

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Not every form of wealth comes from the ground, though. Japan, Switzerland, Singapore, Belgium, and South Korea are all countries with very little natural resources but are wealthy developed countries.
Yes and they're all niches or are facilitated by fundamental structural factors that you can't just arbitarily decide to copy. And it would be difficult to pivot to the things they do without as much focus on mining and agriculture, and replacing mining with e.g. more service based economics would likely make us poorer, not richer.

And it's certianly not the case unlimited indians is going to lead us to becoming switzerland lmao
 

SylviaB

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This is true. But Sylvia can't make the argument that "Australia has lots of natural resources, and and immigrants are diluting it" when corporations/foriegn governments are taking most of it.

For the everyday Australian, the abyssal finance/tech sector is FAR more important. Like I agree stop immigrants with Business/STEM degrees for a while, but if Australia wants to be a serious competitor to Singapore/SK/Japan, eventually(15 yeras down the line) more immigrants will be needed to advance Australia.
No, the mining industry is more important than tech BY FAR. Australia would be nothing without its mining industry.

Australia is never going to be a finance competitor with Singapore, and it will never be a consumer tech competitor to Japan or South Korea.

We do not need unlimited indians to have a good economy. So many of our economic problems come from housing problems which comes from insane population growth.

Usually migrant workers have bills/rent/tax/food paid for by the company, and their income is theirs to save, to have a nice retirement back in whatever country they come from.

Yeah 7.5 is too low, but the wage doesn't need to be much higher than $17 honestly. IN the UAE/Singapore they make way less. IMO 6 days a week, 8 hour shifts with holidays is very fair.
In UAE, they're glorified slaves living in horrible conditions. That is not something that can ever happen in Australia. We get the worst of both worlds, migrants driving down wages for Australian workers and consuming housing stock (and government benefits), but without particularly cheap labour to make construction easier.

And importantly, in UAE, they're TEMPORARY. So UAE gets all of the benefits with very little cost. Australia gets all the costs and very little benefit.
 
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SylviaB

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That's because Australia outsources resource extraction and gets hosed by the private companies, who extract the minerals and keep the lions share of the profit (and still whinge about paying royalties). The Arab countries use government corporations to extract their resources and as a result they keep most of the profits. Again, another issue when you dont strictly control lobbying/corporate political donations and allow interests groups with deep pockets to unfairly dictate public policy (like unions, mining companies, environmental groups etc)..
First of all, the extraction isn't outsourced. Nearly all workers and contractors in the Australian mining industry are Australians. It's the investment that gets oursourced (largely because there isn't enough funding available in Australia).

Secondly, the economics of oil and gas production are radically different to minerals extraction.

Saudi Arabia has massive, long-life known oil reserves and can operate on a massive scale.

Mining, especially somewhere like Australia, is completely different. The average operation is much smaller, has a lower lifespan, you need to spend (and risk) a lot on exploration, and even after you find something and spend the money developing the resource, there's a signfiicant risk that the resource base was overestimated or extraction/processing costs much higher than expected.

It's easy to look at the biggest iron ore operations and think the government should own them, but 1) This isn't the whole mining industry, 2) Iron ore wasn't that valuable before a few decades ago so a lot of this is hindsight bias 3) billions have been spent on exploration over the past few decades to allow current iron ore production rates to be what they are and it wasn't obvious that e.g. BHP or Rio were going to be the ones who made the most important discoveries originally 4) It wasn't obvious in advance that any given mining project was going to be particularly unprofitable

Your vision would require

A) The government itself risking $4 billion a year on exploration itself, which it is unlikely to do as well as private exploration companies for obvious reasons, like general government inefficiency, being pressursed into spending this exploration budget to "more fairly benefit communities" i.e. more equal geographic distrubition instead of what the geology and market conditions dictate, hiring or contracting people based on political considerations more than competence/cos effectiveness (e.g. maximising the use of indigenous owned contractors for its own sake), and not increasing or reallocating spending based on market conditions even if it means jobs are lost in a certain area, among other things. And more importantly, they have to pick which exploration finds get developed into mining projects, where all of the above concerns become 10 times as worse, because people will be angry if most of the mines are getting built in northern WA instead of other places, and people will demand that mines remain operational to 'save jobs' even if they're no longer profitable.

Or

B) Dictating that every mining operation in the country becomes majority owner of any mining operation in the country and somehow expect that this won't radically disincentivize private mineral exploration and development investment even though it means any discovery has only a fraction of the economic value it otherwise would have. And also hope that none of the above issues also come into effect (e.g. refusing to accept closure of unprofitable mines) from their majority ownership of these operations, which wold either mean government subsidising these operations (defeating the point of them owning them - it was supposed to make the government money) and would lead to value destruction, or you're forcing private companies to maintain unprofitable operations themselves, which would further disincentivise investment.
 

enoilgam

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First of all, the extraction isn't outsourced. Nearly all workers and contractors in the Australian mining industry are Australians. It's the investment that gets oursourced (largely because there isn't enough funding available in Australia).

Secondly, the economics of oil and gas production are radically different to minerals extraction.

Saudi Arabia has massive, long-life known oil reserves and can operate on a massive scale.

Mining, especially somewhere like Australia, is completely different. The average operation is much smaller, has a lower lifespan, you need to spend (and risk) a lot on exploration, and even after you find something and spend the money developing the resource, there's a signfiicant risk that the resource base was overestimated or extraction/processing costs much higher than expected.

It's easy to look at the biggest iron ore operations and think the government should own them, but 1) This isn't the whole mining industry, 2) Iron ore wasn't that valuable before a few decades ago so a lot of this is hindsight bias 3) billions have been spent on exploration over the past few decades to allow current iron ore production rates to be what they are and it wasn't obvious that e.g. BHP or Rio were going to be the ones who made the most important discoveries originally 4) It wasn't obvious in advance that any given mining project was going to be particularly unprofitable

Your vision would require

A) The government itself risking $4 billion a year on exploration itself, which it is unlikely to do as well as private exploration companies for obvious reasons, like general government inefficiency, being pressursed into spending this exploration budget to "more fairly benefit communities" i.e. more equal geographic distrubition instead of what the geology and market conditions dictate, hiring or contracting people based on political considerations more than competence/cos effectiveness (e.g. maximising the use of indigenous owned contractors for its own sake), and not increasing or reallocating spending based on market conditions even if it means jobs are lost in a certain area, among other things. And more importantly, they have to pick which exploration finds get developed into mining projects, where all of the above concerns become 10 times as worse, because people will be angry if most of the mines are getting built in northern WA instead of other places, and people will demand that mines remain operational to 'save jobs' even if they're no longer profitable.

Or

B) Dictating that every mining operation in the country becomes majority owner of any mining operation in the country and somehow expect that this won't radically disincentivize private mineral exploration and development investment even though it means any discovery has only a fraction of the economic value it otherwise would have. And also hope that none of the above issues also come into effect (e.g. refusing to accept closure of unprofitable mines) from their majority ownership of these operations, which wold either mean government subsidising these operations (defeating the point of them owning them - it was supposed to make the government money) and would lead to value destruction, or you're forcing private companies to maintain unprofitable operations themselves, which would further disincentivise investment.
Point very much taken. From reading this, Im guessing you have a background in minerals/mining/oil and gas or maybe engineering. Usually your opinions are just standard right wing talking points with a little extra spice to troll the masses. This reads like an expert opinion.
 

gammahydroxybutyrate

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Point very much taken. From reading this, Im guessing you have a background in minerals/mining/oil and gas or maybe engineering. Usually your opinions are just standard right wing talking points with a little extra spice to troll the masses. This reads like an expert opinion.
exceedingly rare demonstration of brain activity from this guy
 

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