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Who should win the next election (1 Viewer)

Who will win the next election

  • Labor

    Votes: 18 28.6%
  • Liberal

    Votes: 45 71.4%

  • Total voters
    63

soloooooo

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Rudd seems like a good idea when he isn't the leader of the party, but what everyone forgets his dismal inability to deliver on policy which led to his eventual downfall in the first place. Gillard won't be able to bear the onslaught of angry voters looking for stability from government, I think most people just want a stable government up and running instead of leadership challenges and defections to various wings of the party dominating the news every night

On that basis i would say the most likey winner of the next election would be the Liberal Party.

I must confess though that I am a fairly right wing in my views.
As I said in another thread it was I think, many western countries are trending towards the right due to widespread failures in multiculturalism, the global financial crisis and other important issues.
 

Lentern

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Rudd seems like a good idea when he isn't the leader of the party, but what everyone forgets his dismal inability to deliver on policy which led to his eventual downfall in the first place. Gillard won't be able to bear the onslaught of angry voters looking for stability from government, I think most people just want a stable government up and running instead of leadership challenges and defections to various wings of the party dominating the news every night
No they don't because it is a fiction that never actually happened. The legislative achievements of the Rudd governments first two years were more substantial than that of any government since Whitlam, utterly dwarfing those of the Howard government and this was despite battling the most destructive, reckless, obstinate senate since 1975, headed by Nick Minchin and Barnaby Joyce.
 

Lentern

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As I said in another thread it was I think, many western countries are trending towards the right due to widespread failures in multiculturalism, the global financial crisis and other important issues.
Pretty sure the most recent western election was a socialist party.
 

shannan94

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No they don't because it is a fiction that never actually happened. The legislative achievements of the Rudd governments first two years were more substantial than that of any government since Whitlam, utterly dwarfing those of the Howard government and this was despite battling the most destructive, reckless, obstinate senate since 1975, headed by Nick Minchin and Barnaby Joyce.
You have got to be absolutely kidding me? I don't know what on earth your point was in that superficial analysis of Rudd

First, it is not fiction as you claim because the failure of the Government's insulation program, school halls program, refusing to deliver on election promise for the implementation of a tax on mining, the failure of the government to secure passage of its Carbon Trading Scheme and the dismal immigration policies are all what I would call an inability to deliver on policy

If you think that Rudd had legislative achievements more substantial than any other government since Whitlam than you clearly do not have knowledge of any government in that period. I mean all we have to do is look at the Hawke and Keating governments, between them they were able to introduce quite possibly the most significant reforms to Australia ever seen, far more significant than any policy even considered by the Rudd government. Under Hawke he introduced the 1983 Wages Accord improved economic growth without inflation, introduced capital gains tax, diversified australias export base, oversaw the protection of environmental areas through the implementation of The World Heritage Properties Conservation Act 1983 which gave the Commonwealth control over State heritage sites - if your familiar with the Tasmanian Dam Case?, I mean we could even consider the international ties that Hawke developed with the establishment of APEC, HE OUTLAWED DISCRIMINATION in the workforce just to name a few... from 1983 to 1991 in the government of Bob Hawke, Paul Keating was the architect of Australia’s economic deregulation. The government floated the Australian dollar and allowed foreign banks to operate in Australia from 1983 - This has got to be one of the most significant pieces of reform ever economic wise to Australia!

Keating even. Keating’s initiatives as Prime Minister included the passage of Indigenous land rights legislation one of the greatest reforms under keating was native title claims, encouraging the process of reconciliation between Aboriginal and other Australians, and supporting the writing of a ‘new national story’ that acknowledged the conquest and capture of the continent from Indigenous peoples. Keating also established the Republican Advisory Committee to facilitate debate on the possibility of an Australian republic, supported reform of vocational education and training, and furthered the economic reforms started by Hawke.

Howard, we all known the reforms he introduced GST, changing marginal tax rates, baby bonus etc we could go on all night.

The point is, I and many other people would strongly disagree with your premise that the reforms of the Rudd government overshadowed some over the most significant reform ever made By the Hawke, Keating and Howard governments!!

And you think the senate is the problem as reckless and obstinate... How about the labor party themselves, I mean a bit of balance!! Rudd clearly couldn't control his own party, despite having to deal with the senate.

I don't personally have anything against Rudd, or the labor party. It is when people make claims that one government has overshadowed the reforms of another or that political developments are fictional, That is the problem.
 

lolcakes52

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ALSO FAILURES IN MULTICUTURALISM WHAT? wow.... ignorance can be astounding.
 

Lentern

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You have got to be absolutely kidding me? I don't know what on earth your point was in that superficial analysis of Rudd

First, it is not fiction as you claim because the failure of the Government's insulation program, school halls program, refusing to deliver on election promise for the implementation of a tax on mining, the failure of the government to secure passage of its Carbon Trading Scheme and the dismal immigration policies are all what I would call an inability to deliver on policy

If you think that Rudd had legislative achievements more substantial than any other government since Whitlam than you clearly do not have knowledge of any government in that period. I mean all we have to do is look at the Hawke and Keating governments, between them they were able to introduce quite possibly the most significant reforms to Australia ever seen, far more significant than any policy even considered by the Rudd government. Under Hawke he introduced the 1983 Wages Accord improved economic growth without inflation, introduced capital gains tax, diversified australias export base, oversaw the protection of environmental areas through the implementation of The World Heritage Properties Conservation Act 1983 which gave the Commonwealth control over State heritage sites - if your familiar with the Tasmanian Dam Case?, I mean we could even consider the international ties that Hawke developed with the establishment of APEC, HE OUTLAWED DISCRIMINATION in the workforce just to name a few... from 1983 to 1991 in the government of Bob Hawke, Paul Keating was the architect of Australia’s economic deregulation. The government floated the Australian dollar and allowed foreign banks to operate in Australia from 1983 - This has got to be one of the most significant pieces of reform ever economic wise to Australia!

Keating even. Keating’s initiatives as Prime Minister included the passage of Indigenous land rights legislation one of the greatest reforms under keating was native title claims, encouraging the process of reconciliation between Aboriginal and other Australians, and supporting the writing of a ‘new national story’ that acknowledged the conquest and capture of the continent from Indigenous peoples. Keating also established the Republican Advisory Committee to facilitate debate on the possibility of an Australian republic, supported reform of vocational education and training, and furthered the economic reforms started by Hawke.

Howard, we all known the reforms he introduced GST, changing marginal tax rates, baby bonus etc we could go on all night.

The point is, I and many other people would strongly disagree with your premise that the reforms of the Rudd government overshadowed some over the most significant reform ever made By the Hawke, Keating and Howard governments!!

And you think the senate is the problem as reckless and obstinate... How about the labor party themselves, I mean a bit of balance!! Rudd clearly couldn't control his own party, despite having to deal with the senate.

I don't personally have anything against Rudd, or the labor party. It is when people make claims that one government has overshadowed the reforms of another or that political developments are fictional, That is the problem.
Many of the reforms you credit to Howard were not achieved in his first two years. The Rudd government brought in the Fair Work Australia Act to replace Workchoices, Removed offshore processing of asylum seekers, detention debt and Temporary Protection Visas, removed 58 pieces of discriminatory LGBT pieces of legislation. Despite the claim that all he did for Indigenous Australians was apologize, he established 500 rural community outstations as part of the return to country movement andcontributed more than 600 million for strategic indigenous housing projects. Rudd's response to the Global Financial Crisis has been lauded internationally, in particular his decision to guarantee all bank deposits, which the Turnbull lead opposition criticized at the time I believe prevented Australia going into recession.

As for his failure to deliver on promises, pigs arse. The school infrastructure is there, the buildings, the computers, they have been rolled out and the response from principles and teachers has been overwhelmingly positive. As for the much maligned home insulation scheme, this wonderful article by Scott Steel http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollytics/2011/04/24/the-csiro-gets-hip-to-debunking-media-hysteria/ debunks this fiction that it's implementation was a disaster, the way the government managed the media fallout was disastrous but the program was quite successful. The mining tax was not an election promise as you claim it was never on the public agenda until after the Henry tax Review was published and Rudd(along with Lindsay Tanner who had ministerial responsibility for the project) did secure senate passage for that. The main culprit you have to blame for the pissweak version we now have of it is one Wayne Maxwell Swan. Finally the ETS, pray tell what would you have had Rudd done? There was no reason not to promise it in 2007, it had bipartisan support. Go to a double dissolution as many have suggested? What would that have achieved, both Labor and the Greens were resolute they would oppose it? No sane analysis of election prospects saw Labor getting remotely close to a senate majority after the election so they would have been back to square one.

So why does everyone say Rudd was so awful I anticipate you say, why was he so despised? Simply, he wasn't. He was the most popular Prime Minister in history, even at the lowest point in his career his newspoll approval rating was higher than Howard's had been since 2004. Higher than Abbott's has ever been. And now every opinion poll they run has him absolutely dwarfing Gillard and Abbott. Why? Because he was an effective Prime Minister who was successfully adapting to the unforeseeable challenges of government whilst still effectively pursuing his 2007 core election commitments and if he returns as Prime Minister he will receive a royal reception from the greater electorate which you seem do dismally out of touch with.
 

shannan94

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I'm not disputing that Rudd was a good prime minister, in fact I personally thought that he handled issues better than Julia Gillard, or the fact that he introduced reforms. The point of argument that you are missing is the fact that there is no way to assert his effectiveness over the reforms of previous governments because we are talking about the operation of governments in different times and different circumstances - I believe that all governments have introduced legislative achievements of equal importance, and it is just pure bias to claim that Rudd was better.

Secondly, I understand that you are a both a strong supporter of Kevin Rudd and believe that he was unfairly treated and i'm sure that a lot of other Australian's hold that belief as well, you need to separate yourself emotionally from him because its about the party, and at the time when he was disposed the party felt that he was not reflecting party values hence the poor support from party members leading to his decision to humbly stand down as he obviously recognised this.

I'm not going to pursue this argument though, its clearly loosing essence due to a lack of balance and clear obstinate opinion.
 

Lolsmith

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You have got to be absolutely kidding me? I don't know what on earth your point was in that superficial analysis of Rudd

First, it is not fiction as you claim because the failure of the Government's insulation program, school halls program, refusing to deliver on election promise for the implementation of a tax on mining, the failure of the government to secure passage of its Carbon Trading Scheme and the dismal immigration policies are all what I would call an inability to deliver on policy

If you think that Rudd had legislative achievements more substantial than any other government since Whitlam than you clearly do not have knowledge of any government in that period. I mean all we have to do is look at the Hawke and Keating governments, between them they were able to introduce quite possibly the most significant reforms to Australia ever seen, far more significant than any policy even considered by the Rudd government. Under Hawke he introduced the 1983 Wages Accord improved economic growth without inflation, introduced capital gains tax, diversified australias export base, oversaw the protection of environmental areas through the implementation of The World Heritage Properties Conservation Act 1983 which gave the Commonwealth control over State heritage sites - if your familiar with the Tasmanian Dam Case?, I mean we could even consider the international ties that Hawke developed with the establishment of APEC, HE OUTLAWED DISCRIMINATION in the workforce just to name a few... from 1983 to 1991 in the government of Bob Hawke, Paul Keating was the architect of Australia’s economic deregulation. The government floated the Australian dollar and allowed foreign banks to operate in Australia from 1983 - This has got to be one of the most significant pieces of reform ever economic wise to Australia!

Keating even. Keating’s initiatives as Prime Minister included the passage of Indigenous land rights legislation one of the greatest reforms under keating was native title claims, encouraging the process of reconciliation between Aboriginal and other Australians, and supporting the writing of a ‘new national story’ that acknowledged the conquest and capture of the continent from Indigenous peoples. Keating also established the Republican Advisory Committee to facilitate debate on the possibility of an Australian republic, supported reform of vocational education and training, and furthered the economic reforms started by Hawke.

Howard, we all known the reforms he introduced GST, changing marginal tax rates, baby bonus etc we could go on all night.

The point is, I and many other people would strongly disagree with your premise that the reforms of the Rudd government overshadowed some over the most significant reform ever made By the Hawke, Keating and Howard governments!!

And you think the senate is the problem as reckless and obstinate... How about the labor party themselves, I mean a bit of balance!! Rudd clearly couldn't control his own party, despite having to deal with the senate.

I don't personally have anything against Rudd, or the labor party. It is when people make claims that one government has overshadowed the reforms of another or that political developments are fictional, That is the problem.
mouth piece of the Liberal Party lol I can't believe there are people like this
 

Lolsmith

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Because he was an effective Prime Minister who was successfully adapting to the unforeseeable challenges of government whilst still effectively pursuing his 2007 core election commitments and if he returns as Prime Minister he will receive a royal reception from the greater electorate which you seem do dismally out of touch with.
Nope

I don't believe this is why politicians are popular. I think they're popular because of the personality they provide. Gillard is *terrible* at this, despite being a capable and intelligent woman. Abbott comes across as a fucking moron, but Rudd portrayed himself well. Going to a strip club in the States was great for him, it makes him seem like a regular Joe Blow; coupled with his skills in Mandarin (I'm pretty sure he speaks Mandarin, not Cantonese), he gives off a vibe that will get the job done.
 

Lolsmith

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Hawke and Keating were labor party members
all of your arguments against Rudd/Labor read like a Liberal media release sheet

I think you'd be hard pressed to find any Liberal politician criticising the reforms of Hawke or Keating seriously.
 

shannan94

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Nope

I don't believe this is why politicians are popular. I think they're popular because of the personality they provide. \
Exactly. If we look at the criticism of the two leaders in mainstream media at the moment, it is mostly ad hominem towards their personality.
 

will90211

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Actually 'maggie' Abbott beats Rudd. You seem forget after his honey moon period that Abbott dominated Rudd, the latter showing a steady decrease in polling.
 

FTW

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I generally support liberal, but the sex party has some pretty good policies.
Only problem is nobody takes it seriously.
 

funkshen

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i wish i understood how people made the leap from "i generally support liberal" to "the sex party has some pretty good policies"
 

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