Homosexuality in Australia (5 Viewers)

[boris]

I don't accept that it's intrinsically degrading either. As usual you give no reasons as to WHY it is degrading. I would contend that a man can love and care for more than one woman. Even if it is "degrading" in your opinion, they voluntarily consent to it. If they dont, there are existing laws to deal with this.

Homosexual couples can adopt and care for children that would otherwise be in institutionalised care. Well they could if primative laws were updated.

Tully: It doesn't matter if you find it weird or unnatural. You don't have a right to impose your beliefs and attitudes on others, particularly when their behaviour has no impact on you whatsoever.

Wasn't imposing, I just find it fucking weird.

 

[Iron]

Well that's just taking the stereotypical man-and-many-wives scenario. What if a woman wants a few husbands?

Yes!
Makes you realise how 'unmarried' proprietary rights and marriage are in this day and age

 

[boris]

Re: Polygamy

One theme is that relationships between husbands and wives are defined by the difficulties inherent in plural marriage by patriarchal norms. Polygamy is practised among groups that have strongly patriarchal values, and may not believe in gender equality. While competition between wives for economic benefits, status and affection is at the root of many of the problems that exist in polygamous marriages, the subordination of women also defines the relationship between the husband and each wife (Altman 1993; Elbedour et al. 2002; Al-Krenawi and Graham 1999; Agadjanian and Ezeh 2000). Even in cultures where conflict among wives and children is limited and polygamy is strongly encouraged by the community, unequal treatment of wives, mistreatment of women and jealousy are consistently identified as the difficulties experienced in polygamous families (Madhavan 2002; Altman and Ginat 1996).

http://www.swc-cfc.gc.ca/pubs/pubspr/0662420683/200511_0662420683-2_6_e.html

55. Although polygamy was recognized in the teachings of the Muslim religion, it gave rise to a number of unfortunate consequences, including an adverse psychological effect on children and a high birth rate. Various countries had therefore taken measures to combat that practice. Tunisia had reinterpreted the Koran, by reassembling its parts, to indicate that polygamy was unacceptable. Other countries had adopted civil measures, such as according a wife whose husband took a second wife the right to an immediate divorce. Senegal should describe what efforts, if any, it was taking to combat polygamy.

http://www.unhchr.ch/tbs/doc.nsf/0/2f62d4411fb5174a412562dd00568548?Opendocument

Polygamous marriages often lead to family dissolution. For example, men may leave their senior wives and their children in order to live with their later wives
and their children. In these cases, the father may not participate in the upbringing of all of his children, and those left behind may experience feelings of grief
and abandonment, as well as lower levels of parental supervision.

By examining and interpreting family drawings of 20 Bedouin-Arab children from polygamous families, Lev-Wiesel and Al-Krenawi (2000) provided
evidence that polygamy can considerably affect children’s psychological and emotional well-being. In particular, the children in the study tended to draw their
biological mothers’ figures larger and placed them higher on the page than of the other wives in the polygamous family. Further, while children of senior wives
revealed their mothers’ superiority in their drawings, children of junior wives tended not to represent this social status. Most notably, 36% of children did not
draw their fathers at all, all of these representing children of the most senior wife. Of those who did, the father figure was consistently smaller in size than the
figure of the biological mother, irrespective of the location of the figures on the page. According to the researchers, the latter findings may reflect unresolved
negative attitudes toward their fathers on the part of the children. Moreover, these results may suggest that the fact that each child from polygamous families is
compelled to share his/her father and all his resources with the wives and children of other families within the system may induce confusion about the boundaries
of his/her nuclear family (Lev-Wiesel & Al- Krenawi, 2000)

Clinical Child and Family Psychology Review, Vol. 5, No. 4, December 2002

 

[CharlieB]

Incest has to be illegal to protect children

Why not outlaw selling cigarettes to preggo mums?

...evidence that polygamy can considerably affect children’s psychological and emotional well-being.

YES, BECAUSE A CHILD WITH TWO DAD'S WILL GROW TO BE MENTALLY AS HEALTHY AS ANY OTHER CHILD.

 

[boris]

Dude, there's something wrong with you. I don't believe in legislating against it, purely because there are countless heterosexual couples that have kids and manage to fuck them over.

I just find that a polygamist relationship must really, really, really be not that healthy overall.

 

[boris]

Most of these studies were done in America, Canada and France mang. It's just that Mormons and Bedouin-Arab's seem to be the predominant polygamists in the world.

lol. Fundamentalist Mormons. Hilarious.

 

[Kwayera]

Well I think most polygamist relationships that anybody hears about and can therefore study happen in religious cults. Therefore, not a very nice upbringing in general.

There's a good Boston Legal episode that deals with this. A man has two wives, and children with both (NOT a religious thing), and all involved are very happy (and it's the women who are fighting for their right to both be married to him - both are very good friends, and both see the benefits of mutual shared upbringing - from one wife's point of view, if he's in the mood and she isn't, she can just send him over to his other wife while she can have a hot bath!). While I don't think this is the average of what happens in polygamist relationships, there's no reason why it wouldn't, or shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Children raised in a community atmosphere, with many parental figures, generally do better than those with only one.

 

[Kwayera]

I disagree. Your studies about muslims are not really relevant. Since they live in shit countries and believe a nutty religion, of course they are more likely to have psychological problems.

I'd argue that we only believe in monogomy because of social conditioning and that it is not inherently better. When humans lived in tribal situations it was common practice for the alpha male to have sex with all the women. Indeed natural selection suggests only the strongest most successful males should breed.

I don't buy the "ZOMG two daddies" argument either. If they are both sensible men what's the problem? The only alleged problem is that it might re-enforce beliefts that certain people think are wrong, but once again there is no justification for it being wrong, except the "ZOMG two daddies" argument. So its just circular reasoning.

Not just the patriarchal view. In tribes that remain today (one in remote northern Asia, China or Japan? I think it's Japan, but I can't remember) the women are the "dominant" sex and they get to have all the husbands they want!

 

[boris]

Well I think most polygamist relationships that anybody hears about and can therefore study happen in religious cults. Therefore, not a very nice upbringing in general.

There's a good Boston Legal episode that deals with this. A man has two wives, and children with both (NOT a religious thing), and all involved are very happy (and it's the women who are fighting for their right to both be married to him - both are very good friends, and both see the benefits of mutual shared upbringing - from one wife's point of view, if he's in the mood and she isn't, she can just send him over to his other wife while she can have a hot bath!). While I don't think this is the average of what happens in polygamist relationships, there's no reason why it wouldn't, or shouldn't be allowed to happen.

Children raised in a community atmosphere, with many parental figures, generally do better than those with only one.

Except most of what I was reading was indicating that there is no level of community per se, because the men shift from wife to wife and the children grow to either resent or even forget the father exists. Then there a lack of equality between the children and favouritism by certain mothers towards certain kids, etc.

It's no different I guess than a child being raised with a step parent who already has kids of their own, except this is a more sheltered and condensed environment.

 

[CharlieB]

OMG there is some evidence something has negative impacts. Time to legislate against it.

Yes i know ciggies/preggo mum is a ridiculous example, i was trying to make a point. Incestuous relationships remain illegal because it is a social taboo.

http://edition.cnn.com/2002/LAW/04/columns/fl.grossman.incest.04.09/

 

[boris]

Yes i know ciggies/preggo mum is a ridiculous example, i was trying to make a point. Incestuous relationships remain illegal because it is a social taboo.

http://edition.cnn.com/2002/LAW/04/columns/fl.grossman.incest.04.09/

Saying the word penis is a social taboo, it doesnt mean we need to go and cut off every penis.

 

[Kwayera]

Except most of what I was reading was indicating that there is no level of community per se, because the men shift from wife to wife and the children grow to either resent or even forget the father exists. Then there a lack of equality between the children and favouritism by certain mothers towards certain kids, etc.

It's no different I guess than a child being raised with a step parent who already has kids of their own, except this is a more sheltered and condensed environment.

I'd level the fault of that, again, at the feet of a religious cult. I'm willing to bet a whole lot of money that those polygamists come from a crazy crazy patriarchial (like most Abrahamic religions) cult.

 

[boris]

I'd level the fault of that, again, at the feet of a religious cult. I'm willing to bet a whole lot of money that those polygamists come from a crazy crazy patriarchial (like most Abrahamic religions) cult.

Well yes. I'm not sure exactly on the statistics, but in those studies the polygamist families they looked at were from fundamentalist Mormon or Muslim religions.

I'd go so far as to say the extent of secular polygamist relationships is quite small.

 

[Nayyy]

marriage these days is a sign of love, so why not? if you want to spend you rlife with someone you should be allowed to marry them. kids, well maybe a bit later, when society stops judging, if just for the sake of the child growing up/at school etc. homosexuality is gay! - frank iero

 

[Nayyy]

char!

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haha i hope char means in a good yeah/cheh/char way

 

[stazi]

gay marriage is just sick...


gay people are just mentally retarted and same goes for leso's...

all the gays/leso/trans and bisexual are just sick in the head, and please dont start with i was born like this, no you wern't you chose to become what you are...

as I have said before, who on earth would make the choice of being constantly discriminated against, being refused jobs, being gaybashed, having a higher risk of aids, all to have some 'fun' that can be replicated with a woman and a dildo?

 

[Captain Gh3y]

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haha i hope char means in a good yeah/cheh/char way

...mander

as I have said before, who on earth would make the choice of being constantly discriminated against, being refused jobs, being gaybashed, having a higher risk of aids, all to have some 'fun' that can be replicated with a woman and a dildo?

someone who really loves the cock, obviously

 

[ur_inner_child]

serious question: are YOU gay?

I hate that sort of retaliation. Yes, bully your opponent by accusing him of something he defends. Why does anyone support anything that they themselves are not part of? Every man for himself! Block your ears, don't take a stand for anyone!

 

[MTP]

I hate that sort of retaliation. Yes, bully your opponent by accusing him of something he defends. Why does anyone support anything that they themselves are not part of? Every man for himself! Block your ears, don't take a stand for anyone!

errrr, it was a SERIOUS question. Cos i havent heard of any straight dude that gets deeply offended by discrimination against homosexuals. In no way, i was mocking him. hence why i put the words "serious" and "no offence intended" in my post.

 

[ur_inner_child]

I'm in a 5 year heterosexual relationship and even I get offended by some of the posts in here. I'm just not very vocal about it as I'm meant to be the big objective orange coloured moderator.

We have family and friends that may be gay. Or we understand that all people deserve the same rights, and that homosexuality is not a choice.