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Employer kept some of my pay as a bond (1 Viewer)

meLoncoLLie

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For those working in retail, have you had employers that kept some of your pay as a bond? My current employer said she's keeping three weeks' pay (ie. I will only start getting paid after the 4th week of employment)...and the bond will be refunded when I leave the job.

She said she's doing this in case employees steal from the till or damage items in the shop. Is this illegal?
 

LMF^^

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Well not really, I've worked in salez and they take bondz all the time. Where do you work actually...?
 

jase_

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If it's written in your contract then it's all legal I suppose.
 

seremify007

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Sounds dodgy but with all these new IR laws... anything goes as long as it's in the contract.
 

meLoncoLLie

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My boss did mention the new Workplace Agreement laws to me, but she only told me that "an agreement between the employer and employee can override the law". I thought that sounded so suss, so I looked up Workplace Agreement on the IR website.

What I found out was, even though practically anything goes as long as both the employer and employee sign the contract, the contract needs to be lodged to the IR office and be approved by them before it becomes valid.

BUT I haven't signed a contract like that. I'm just wondering how I can find out whether what she's doing is legal or not; if it's illegal I can force her to give me the full pay from the very day I started working.



Edit: Just found the number for the advice line of the IR office...I'll give them a call. has anyone encountered this kind of thing before though?
 
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*Minka*

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Mike Ockisard said:
at that stage i told him who my dad was, and that i had legal papers ready to serve on him that afternoon if my payment wasnt processed by the end of that working day.
LOL. Your father is a Lawyer as well? Works Wonders for shit like this doesn't it!
 

seremify007

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I don't think it has to be lodged to be valid does it? I remember (vaguely) studying this back in HSC Economics/Business Studies.

But yeh, contracts can't override the law- but it all depends on how they word it, and also the exact wording of the law. I'm unsure of the legality of the law when it comes to employers witholding income as a bond- but it could very well be possible.
 

breaking

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yeah AWAs need to be lodged for approval before they become valid
 

townie

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breaking said:
yeah AWAs need to be lodged for approval before they become valid
lodged, i dont think they have to be approved as rigorously anymore under the IR reforms, as long as they have the 5 key conditions, they're approved
 
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xeuyrawp

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townie said:
lodged, i dont think they have to be approved as rigorously anymore under the IR reforms, as long as they have the 5 key conditions, they're approved
Yeah, you're right. They're not ever really approved but rather disapproved if they're dodgy.
 

Baiku

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Mike Ockisard said:
you cannot be forced to sign a contract stating conditions that are against the law.

an illegality voids a contract, therefore any reputable company (any company worth working for) would not have illegal terms in a contract

having said that - im not familiar with the new workplace reforms as they dont affect me. i highly, highly doubt that this would be a part of them though.
Mate, do you have any idea what you're talking about in this thread?

Firstly, you can NEVER be forced to sign a contract, regardless of its terms and conditions, you must do so on your own free will.

Secondly, there is no such thing as an illegality in contract. People are free to contract as they please, providing that it does not conflict with any legislation that specifies otherwise. For this purpose, there is a significant amount of legislation that protects employees in the workplace.

If you have a job the "workplace reforms" do impact you, and nearly everyone in a job....
 

Baiku

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Mike Ockisard said:
1 - we're not mates

2 - yes, i have quite a firm grasp of the concepts ive been talking about in this thread

3 - no, you can never be forced to sign a contract, but the only other option in this scenario is to look for another job, so effectively you are forced to

4 - "there is no such thing as an illegality in contract. People are free to contract as they please, providing that it does not conflict with any legislation" is just one big contradiction. my whole point was that a contract is not valid or able to be enforced if the terms of the contract break the law. you then went on to correct me by saying that theres no such thing as an illegality in a contract unless it breaks the law. think about what you say in the future.

5 - "If you have a job the "workplace reforms" do impact you, and nearly everyone in a job...." is another flaw of yours. on one hand you're saying it definitely impacts me, then you're saying 'nearly everyone' without knowing which category i fall under. dont tell me what does and doesn't effect me. the new workplace reforms have absolutely NO bearing on my current employment. they do not effect everyone.

1. I'm quite confident that I can refer to you in any manner that pleases me.,

2. There is no evidence to suggest you have any idea of what you are speaking. Have you studied law or industrial relations? Have you read Howard's industrial relations changes? Didn't think so.

3. Being faced with a term in a contract is not effectively being forced to sign a contract. Firstly there are plenty of jobs at the moment, unemployment is at a very low level and any industry that requries a bond would certainly have other openings. Secondly, you are free to negotiate contracts as you please. "I won't sign it unless we add/subtract this term", then it is up to the employer and you to make a deal.

4. I always think about what I'm saying, and have done so for you too, concluding that I think what you are saying is wrong. There is no such thing as an illegality in contract. Furthermore, any contract that has terms or conditions that are in violation of legislation surrounding that contract is still valid (not invalid as you say), however the specific terms and conditions that breach the legislation are not enforceable by law.

5. What is your job? You apparently aren't aware of the scope of the industrial relations changes, including the centralisation of all industrial relations legislation that effectively impacts EVERYBODY who works in Australia in a legal profession. So unless you are working in a black maket, dealing drugs, or prostituting yourself, it does have a bearing on you. You may or may not notice a change, but it still is there.

(Perhaps you should realise that although you don't know what you're talking about, other people on this forum actually may...Reading about something in the newspaper or seeing it on TV does not make you "informed".)

- The reason that people are so vulnerable in employment contracts is because of the imbalance of power that exists between employers and employees. Half of the time if the employee spoke up and made the employer aware of the laws they are breaking, they will stop imposing such conditions on their employees.
 

alby

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Baiku said:
What is your job? You apparently aren't aware of the scope of the industrial relations changes, including the centralisation of all industrial relations legislation that effectively impacts EVERYBODY who works in Australia in a legal profession.
i think what matt's trying to say is that if you havent signed a new contract under the new IR laws, then they don't effect you. and as he said before, he's been employed in his current jobs for over a year, ie. since before howard brought the changes into place. therefore the only things he has to 'abide' by are what was in his contract when he started his job, not any IR reforms

remember that not everyone had to sign new contracts as soon as the reforms came in
 
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Baiku

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alby said:
i think what matt's trying to say is that if you havent signed a new contract under the new IR laws, then they don't effect you. and as he said before, he's been employed in his current jobs for over a year, ie. since before howard brought the changes into place. therefore the only things he has to 'abide' by are what was in his contract when he started his job, not any IR reforms

remember that not everyone had to sign new contracts as soon as the reforms came in
The legislation in question is not only applied to new contracts as they form...It has a much wider scope than people realise...it is more than just a few simple rule changes.

It is an 800-page document...
 

alby

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i never said that i studied (let alone read or cared about) the reforms, i'm just saying that as far as i know, if you havent signed anything related to a new implementation (eg. the reforms) then you cant be effected by them (eg. they cant sack you because of a change in the reforms if you havent signed a new contract under the reforms)
 

Baiku

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alby said:
i never said that i studied (let alone read or cared about) the reforms, i'm just saying that as far as i know, if you havent signed anything related to a new implementation (eg. the reforms) then you cant be effected by them (eg. they cant sack you because of a change in the reforms if you havent signed a new contract under the reforms)
Yes, but what I am saying is there is more to the reforms than simply being sacked by employers.
Legislation is enacted at a certain date, and can be enacted retrospectively as well. The changes occur immediately, not next time you sign a contract. There are more changes than what the media is talking about - that is what I am saying...
 

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