A lot of people have bad luck then, could always blame Murphy I suppose~ There are definitely a core of very intelligent international students, but the majority of them are probably here because they couldn't cope with the rigour and competitiveness of their system back home. Ds shouldn't be too hard to obtain in commerce/economic courses, expecting HDs is probably unreasonable though. Personally, my friends and I have had rather atrocious experiences in the past, but that's not to say it can't have happened with local students.cyncyn2007 said:
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Your feelings towards internationals. (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter BackCountrySnow
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I do suppose the experience with international students varies with courses and unis. There will be more poorly english speaking students in some courses and in some universities due to the lower entry requirements.
I'm an international, and I do find that some of the views over the internationals are valid. However, I can say the same about some local Aussies.
A friend of mine (an international) had a group work with a local. The local was lazy, gave all sorts of excuses (like pc broke down) for not doing any work. That's not about it. The work he sent over to my friend was written so poorly. The english was so bad that my friend had to redo everything by herself.
My friend was shocked, since we are from a go8 university and since this is Australia.
My experience with the local aussies in group work and tutorials varies. In some of my tutes, the internationals (asians) were contributing while the local aussies just remained silent throughout the tute. For group work, some of them (locals) don't even attend a single meeting.
It is best not to stereotype internationals. Likewise, I would never stereotype the local aussies. I have great aussie friends here, and we are a good mix.
I'm an international, and I do find that some of the views over the internationals are valid. However, I can say the same about some local Aussies.
A friend of mine (an international) had a group work with a local. The local was lazy, gave all sorts of excuses (like pc broke down) for not doing any work. That's not about it. The work he sent over to my friend was written so poorly. The english was so bad that my friend had to redo everything by herself.
My friend was shocked, since we are from a go8 university and since this is Australia.
My experience with the local aussies in group work and tutorials varies. In some of my tutes, the internationals (asians) were contributing while the local aussies just remained silent throughout the tute. For group work, some of them (locals) don't even attend a single meeting.
It is best not to stereotype internationals. Likewise, I would never stereotype the local aussies. I have great aussie friends here, and we are a good mix.
This is true for some Asian countries but not all. International students from countries like Malaysia chose overseas education because there is limited spaces in public universities and the lack of quality education. Many chose Australia because of its proximity to the East Asian countries, and the cheaper living costs (compared to the US and UK). There are many Singaporean international students here because of the intense competition back in their country and the limited spaces in uni. However, most Singaporeans I know here do very well in their courses and these are some of the core of very intelligent international students here like you said. If you ask the Singaporeans, some would say that studying over in Australia isn't as difficult as back home.billbro said:
For the bad luck part,
most Malaysians and all (I think) Singaporeans can speak fluent English and are very hardworking. I suppose the ones with poor english skills are from Asian countries that do not emphasize english as an alternative medium of instruction and communication.
BackCountrySnow
Active Member
Being a proud Aussie, all I can say is that I'm sick and tired of non true blue fair dinkum proud Aussies being allowed into universities of this great land.
I don't care that the fee they pay is vital in university revenue and that without them the university would not be able to give me the facilities I enjoy.
I don't care that the reason they get higher marks than me is because they are working hard at home whilst I'm getting fuckin maggot of me face. They're unaustrayan.
In conclusion, fuckin strayan pride.
I don't care that the fee they pay is vital in university revenue and that without them the university would not be able to give me the facilities I enjoy.
I don't care that the reason they get higher marks than me is because they are working hard at home whilst I'm getting fuckin maggot of me face. They're unaustrayan.
In conclusion, fuckin strayan pride.
Even if the country has English as a component in their curriculum that doesn't necessarily mean students will be fluent. Frankly, it is not the competency of the English that irritates me (obviously it would be nice if there wasn't a problem though), but their lack of effort and contribution.derekch said:
Anyway, I'm not saying all international students are a pain, but most of the ones I have been associated with have been. It also seems to be more than bad luck, once or twice can be considered a coincidence, but the common occurrence suggests otherwise.
Yes, I totally understand your frustration. I guess the experience differs. Im an international, and from my experience the international students in my tutes (I've been here for 4 years and like what I said earlier in my previous post) contributed more than the locals.billbro said:
Even as an international, I too get frustrated with some internationals who 1. can't speak good english 2. too lazy 3. criticize me for trying to assimilate into the Aussie culture (i.e. saying that I'm abandoning my roots, this is ridiculous). The effort and english competency part largely has to do with where the international student come from. This all reflects back to the university entry requirements for international students. As far I am aware, many australian unis unfortunately value money more than quality. This holds true for the universities with large porportion of internationals in their student population. Personally, I hate that there are some international students who lack the ability for academic studies could enter into their courses and even graduate whereas I for one, put effort to gain entry to uni and to graduate.
jb_nc
Google "9-11" and "truth"
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Meh, don't know what you mean.billbro said:
If you do good work and are generally interested in putting in a good project, you will get a good peer evaluation from most people. If you do minimal work, you will get a bad one.
Non-confidential peer assessments sound p stupid though.
I just meant that even with peer evaluations, they don't really make the assessments that much more equitable. For the ones I've had, even if you did most of the work (and you are recognised for it) you aren't going to receive a larger proportion of the marks. It only serves as a component that penalises bludgers, by limiting the potential marks they could get.jb_nc said:
Basically, would be nice if you got the marks they were penalised for xD
In my uni, if someone in your group doesn't do a single work, you are allowed to leave them out on the assessment (which means a big fat zero for that person). If someone doesn't really do much group work, you can report to the lecturer and he will grade fairly i.e. you will receive most of the marks. in my experience, one local aussie didn't attend a single meeting and my lecturer allowed us to leave him out, and im sure he got a big fat zero for that 30% assessment.billbro said:
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xONBROKENWINGSx
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What annoys me is when internationals whinge about not being let into some local experience programs eg. an internship with cpa australia
jb_nc
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I think peer assessments are for when they do something or when they don't and it's not a major deal (i.e. rest of your group makes up for it).billbro said:
If a person doesn't do anything then you should report them to the unit of study supervisor.
Doesn't help much, if the lecturer is bothered they'll organise a meeting in an attempt at mediation. Rather than generate further animosity I may as well do it myself. In other instances the lecturer will tell you that this is a facet of teamwork that you need to learn.jb_nc said:
So I like my friends just tend to accept it as a normal part of university life.
cannibal.horse
Member
Ever considered enroling in a B Sarcasm? might be helpful in your future career.Ben.Civiletti said:
International students are fine, so long as they can speak and write English.
Australian universities need to decide whether they want to be respected institutions of higher learning, or PR factories selling McDegrees. At the moment, they seem to be the latter.
Australian universities need to decide whether they want to be respected institutions of higher learning, or PR factories selling McDegrees. At the moment, they seem to be the latter.
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cannibal.horse
Member
LOL - Backcountrysnow was clearly taking the piss, and you still haven't fucking picked up on it.Ben.Civiletti said:
all aboard the slow train!
supercalamari
you've got the love
What the fuck is someone in year eight doing on BoS, let alone trolling a uni forum.Ben.Civiletti said:
What the fuck am I doing in the uni forum?
Oh yeah, umm, internationals: as long as they're nice people who do their work etc. I think maybe they're a good thing.
As an international student and after reading this thread, I take extreme offense at a lot of the remarks that have been made. Whilst many of you do not see your comments as racist, the sweeping generalisations you have made about appereance, intelligence and about Asian countries in general is highly offensive. Such diatribe can only be seen as racist. Racism is the hatred of another race based on prejudice and societal stereotypes. I do not think that all Australians are fat, lazy, drunks with no work ethic, despite this being the stereotypical view held by many other countries. I do not think that all eastern europeans are rapists that have no brain and contribute nothing to society. I do not think that all middle easterns are terrorists. All of these are examples of stereotypes and thinking this way is racist. Likewise, the views posted here, sterotype Asians and are racist.
I have lived in Melbourne for 5 years and acheived an ENTER score in the 90's, which is better than the majority of what my Australian friends acheived. And whilst the english of some international students is not of the same calibre as the Australians, let me assure you that your english is at times FAR from perfect. Considering that the majority of internationals speak english as a second language, how can you expect them to have the same level of english skills as someone who comes from an english speaking background? I wonder how many of you would cope in a foreign land and not being able to speak the language with proficiency. Empathy is a trait that many locals on this thread need to learn.
I shudder to think of how many of you will cope in an ever increasingly diverse and multi-cultural work place. How will you cope when you realise that your boss is not a white Australian? Grow up, and stop worrying about the Asians in your class, because we certainly do not give a shit about you.
I have lived in Melbourne for 5 years and acheived an ENTER score in the 90's, which is better than the majority of what my Australian friends acheived. And whilst the english of some international students is not of the same calibre as the Australians, let me assure you that your english is at times FAR from perfect. Considering that the majority of internationals speak english as a second language, how can you expect them to have the same level of english skills as someone who comes from an english speaking background? I wonder how many of you would cope in a foreign land and not being able to speak the language with proficiency. Empathy is a trait that many locals on this thread need to learn.
I shudder to think of how many of you will cope in an ever increasingly diverse and multi-cultural work place. How will you cope when you realise that your boss is not a white Australian? Grow up, and stop worrying about the Asians in your class, because we certainly do not give a shit about you.
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