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Where do you stand? (1 Viewer)

Where do you stand?


  • Total voters
    353

Freedom_

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Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

These results are um, not very libertarian my friend. Perhaps you should take the test again before your reputation is ruined!
haha. I think I didnt do 1 page.

anyways I did it again


Your political compass

Economic Left/Right: 5.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.46



 

Lentern

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Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

I'm saying it's a good thing that you have the choice of a pie. You know it's not good for you, why are you opting for it? Why do you want to be opressed and spoonfed your decisions? You're an adult capable of making your own. Just because you lack the willpower to do what's good for you, it doesn't mean the rest of us want to be told what to do, what to say, and when to do it.

Have you ever lived under a government (hell, under parents, any authority) where you didn't have choices?

You may be physically fitter, physically healthier and academically better educated if we lived in such a state. Would it be any good for your mental development? Aw hell naw.
I do sometimes wonder if my parents had told me in year seven when I gave up swimming(which i was relatively good at, made state once) that I had to keep doing it whether now I would be thankful. I think its very likely, probably depends on what sacrifices I would be called upon to make for swimming as I got older. Granted you are talking about giving adults choices and probably wouldn't object so much to a parent telling their twelve year old they had to go to squads at least thrice a week. But the obvious answer is no aside from alcohol which they were fairly strict about my parents were very willing to let me make my own decisions most of the time.

You're right about mental development but you haven't shown mental development to be more valuable then health, fitness and intellect.

It may be a good thing that you opt for the pie. You may be happier choosing the pleasure of pies over the benefits of long term health. That is a decision for you, and you alone to make.

It's a ridiculous assumption that every decision that maximizes health outcomes is always best. What is the point of being healthy if you don't enjoy life?

By this logic we should all live next to hospitals, never drink alcohol, walk to work (car accidents are a huge killer) and spend our free time exercising and researching and preparing our scientifically optimized, micro-nutritionally balanced, healthy diets.

We all routinely make trade offs between immediate pleasure and long term health. The optimal balance will necessarily be different for every individual.
I've never been extraordinarily healthy I can't really say but I suspect there is a fair bit of correlation between health and happiness.

This brave new world which you have described would have a helluva lot less people dying from car accidents as you've mentioned, obesity, respiratory diseases and infections, vitamin deficiencies, malnutrition, liver disease, alcohol poisoning, violence related deaths and probably a fair few diseases would be cured in the process. It's quite brave to say that these things are not worth my right to the pie. Maybe not to you but ask someone whose lost a son in a car accident, a wife to cancer or a father who tried to break up a pub brawl and copped the wrong end of it.

Perhaps its not worth trading off short term pleasures for long term health but short term impulses for long term happiness as defined by whatever chemical reactions occur when we are "happy". I don't know what they actually are, I'm not a science person but I'd be astonished if there were no such things.
 

ay0_x

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Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Ah my friend. Your view is one that is expressed by many people who have not lived an authoritarian childhood. I do believe it would be necessary for you to live a life where your choices are severely limited before you could pass judgement on this.

Whilst there is a correlation between health & happiness, experience shows that you don't have to be at the absolute peak of physical health and wellbeing to be happy. Sure, if you're fat, have lung disease, have suffered a stroke and are anaemic, it would make life much less enjoyable. For most people though, a hamburger and large fries here doesn't send them into misery.

I've lost many people to disease (some which are very recent) and tragedy; I've lost many people due to political turmoil, but that hardly means I'm going to stop advocating free choice. Rather, I will continue to advocate the education of the public so they can make better decisions. I cannot put the blame on a "lazy" or "inefficient" government that my grandmother died of diabetes. Nay, she died because she did not part with her baklava and chocolate.

Such self indulgent behaviours made her happy; as they make most people happy. Having choice is an amazing, wondrous thing. Sure, a communist government forcing health down my throat would give me a longer life... unless I decided to commit suicide first.

Ultimately I think that a MODERATE state of health, a high standard of mental development and freedom are the key factors of happiness. I don't think humans are ever happy when they are controlled.
 

loquasagacious

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Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Lay off mate. I know exactly what my views are, and I'm most definitely not economically conservative. I'm far more socialist than most people I know, and socially liberal.
I think you misunderstand what liberal is. Liberal is freedom.

- You believe in the freedom of individuals. You are socially liberal.
- As a self-confessed socialist you do not believe in the freedom of the market, you are anti-freedom. You are economically authoritarian.

Your position aligns neatly with greens, socialists and others.

The issue is that there is a fundamental contradiction at the heart of your beliefs. You find that individuals should be free to have sex, take drugs, not believe in God and generally do as they please. However when these individuals participate in the market you find that they should not be free to sell their labour for whatever they want to, etc. And generally your ilk is particularly opposed to the collections of individuals which we call companies.

The entire point of the compass is to highlight how peoples economic and social beliefs diverge or converge to create their politics.
 

loquasagacious

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Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Perhaps its not worth trading off short term pleasures for long term health but short term impulses for long term happiness as defined by whatever chemical reactions occur when we are "happy". I don't know what they actually are, I'm not a science person but I'd be astonished if there were no such things.
Perhaps that's a decision which individuals should make because I am pretty certain that different people have very different opinions regarding what makes them happy...
 

ay0_x

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Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Oh and

Try to be more careful with throwing around the label "statist thug" guys. It seems to be getting trendy.
 

loquasagacious

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Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

I cannot put the blame on a "lazy" or "inefficient" government that my grandmother died of diabetes. Nay, she died because she did not part with her baklava and chocolate.

Such self indulgent behaviours made her happy; as they make most people happy. Having choice is an amazing, wondrous thing.

I don't think humans are ever happy when they are controlled.
Excellent post.
 

JonathanM

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Re: BOS political compass scatterplot




Economic Left/Right: -1.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -0.67


Pretty surprised about these results.

I was on the right side last time I did this over a year ago, but was still close to the center.
 

David Spade

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Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

i dont fathom how people can not believe that you should be able to do whatever you want as long as if doesnt adversely affect someone else
 

Lentern

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Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Ah my friend. Your view is one that is expressed by many people who have not lived an authoritarian childhood. I do believe it would be necessary for you to live a life where your choices are severely limited before you could pass judgement on this.
Quite possibly.

Whilst there is a correlation between health & happiness, experience shows that you don't have to be at the absolute peak of physical health and wellbeing to be happy. Sure, if you're fat, have lung disease, have suffered a stroke and are anaemic, it would make life much less enjoyable. For most people though, a hamburger and large fries here doesn't send them into misery.
What we have found in recent years particularly in Australia and the United States I'm sure you'll agree that a worrying number of people aren't just having the occasional burgers and fries and projections about Gen Y's health in old age are quite frightening. The concerns generally cited are their eating, sleeping, exercise and drinking habits.

I've lost many people to disease (some which are very recent) and tragedy; I've lost many people due to political turmoil, but that hardly means I'm going to stop advocating free choice. Rather, I will continue to advocate the education of the public so they can make better decisions. I cannot put the blame on a "lazy" or "inefficient" government that my grandmother died of diabetes. Nay, she died because she did not part with her baklava and chocolate.

I've lost many people to disease (some which are very recent) and tragedy; I've lost many people due to political turmoil, but that hardly means I'm going to stop advocating free choice. Rather, I will continue to advocate the education of the public so they can make better decisions. I cannot put the blame on a "lazy" or "inefficient" government that my grandmother died of diabetes. Nay, she died because she did not part with her baklava and chocolate.
I think at least in Australia we are passed the point of being able to cite education (or lack there of) as the problem. People know what they're doing can lead to x, y and z but for an inexplicable reason they don't do what they know is the right thing. Actually it probably can be explained just not by a simpleton like me.

Answer me this if someone is dead set upon hopping in a car and driving it at 80 miles an hour into a brick wall just for kicks would you take away his permission to drive? Most people would also whack a straight jacket on him. So what do we do with people who are speeding towards a crippling disease? Even if you are not a great many people would be willing to sacrifice a little liberty if it meant their grandmother didn't die of diabetes.


Such self indulgent behaviours made her happy; as they make most people happy. Having choice is an amazing, wondrous thing. Sure, a communist government forcing health down my throat would give me a longer life... unless I decided to commit suicide first.
They grant people short term "hits" of happiness. Like a bottle of V is not a goodnight's sleep this is no substitute for healthy habits. You are painting oogba booga Orwellian 1984 images of a socialist state (nobody said anything about revolution you raised communism yourself) which of course sounds horrible. Nobody ever tries to paint a dystopia like Huxley's BNW, possibly because a moderated, watered down version of such a world is not so horrible a prospect.

Ultimately I think that a MODERATE state of health, a high standard of mental development and freedom are the key factors of happiness. I don't think humans are ever happy when they are controlled.
Control and freedom are relative terms as indeed is moderate and high. This conclusion really amounts to nothing if a moderate state of health means your projected age is eighty nine, and freedom means you get to keep 30% of your gross income.
 
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Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

I am a libertarian capitalist by a hair. How unexpected.
 

Rafy

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Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

+8,-8
 

loquasagacious

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Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

Answer me this if someone is dead set upon hopping in a car and driving it at 80 miles an hour into a brick wall just for kicks would you take away his permission to drive?
No. It's their choice not mine.

Even if you are not a great many people would be willing to sacrifice a little liberty if it meant their grandmother didn't die of diabetes.
How intensely selfish. This scenario involves actively degrading the quality of life of one person (your own grandmother ffs) to increase your own quality of life.

Seriously you would coerce your grandmother for your own pleasure?
 

Lentern

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Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

No. It's their choice not mine.
And I would expect no less of you.



How intensely selfish. This scenario involves actively degrading the quality of life of one person (your own grandmother ffs) to increase your own quality of life.

Seriously you would coerce your grandmother for your own pleasure?
Firstly I'd like to think the fact I am related to someone would not be a factor in deciding whether or not I exploited them for my own pleasure. With that being said sparring a person suffering via what could be fairly described as "tough love" is not selfish in the remotest.
 

ay0_x

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Re: BOS political compass scatterplot

No. It's their choice not mine.



How intensely selfish. This scenario involves actively degrading the quality of life of one person (your own grandmother ffs) to increase your own quality of life.

Seriously you would coerce your grandmother for your own pleasure?
Agreed completely.

My grandmother died happily living the way she did. For some people, hedonistic pleasures such as food, sex and drink are all that's needed to make them happy. Who am I to take that away?

I also think you are patronising people. If people do not want to be healthy, THEIR CHOICE. If they do, that is entirely their choice also. People are smart enough to make their own decisions. Stop patronising them and thinking they're clueless!

If a man is driving into a wall repeatedly there is a reason for his behaviour. He obviously wants to experience pain for one reason or another. Let him. If I stop him, he will find another way to do it.

Silver Persian- I do believe in mental illness although I also believe that at times it is best that it is left unmedicated because often the words "mental illness" are nothing more than stickers slapped on people because society does not acknowledge their legitimate feelings of anger and/or sadness.
 

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