Uni Education - Makes you a better person? (2 Viewers)

[Lainee]

Been reading some threads, which raised some questions and I just want to see what people think about them. Do you think if everyone attained a university education that our society would be better off? That has been the impression I've been getting around here: 'get an education, benefit yourself and your society'. Is there too much value put on university education? Should there be more on the development of personal integrity and morality? Wouldn't that benefit society more?

Being intelligent people yourself, do you think you're guilty of intellectual snobbery? Are people somewhat inferior or intelligent if they go to TAFE or dropped out of high school?

 

[LazyBoy]

thats a handful of discussions. lets address them in order

If everybody went to university would society be better off? No. Look at George W. He went to Harvard, is society better off he went? no. Does education benifit oneself? totally. University is just a place that produces a specific type of people. It caters for a specific set of intelligences.

I dont think im guilty of intellectual snobbery because i beleive what they are teaching in primary school these days, the 7 (i think it is) types of intelligences. TAFE caters to another one. Dropping out of school again caters to other more creative types of intelligences.

Developing personal intregrity i think should be encouraged, because integrity is a black and white thing. Morality should not be encouraged or dictated because there is no saying what is right and wrong. (yes i know how hippocritical it is when i just said integrity should be encouraged) Intelligent Morality should be used. Simply put dont tell people what is the right sexuality, etc.

Society is rather complex, which is why i wish to study it. I think no specific group are inferior as long as they are happy with the choice they made when it comes to education.

Is there too much value on university education? yes and no. Yes it is the top of the hierachy, but we are in a trade shortage due to the expectation that you should go to Uni rather then TAFE. But also apprentices themselfs are paid extremely poorly, which does in itself say that a university education is better. I work less hours and make double the money then my friends who are apprentices.

I think i answered all your questions. Just in a random order.

btw: love the topic, its right down my ally... philosophical talk about society

 

[|Axis_]

The very fact that the UAI is a rank shows that it's intended for there to be classes in society. Schooling is the process of separating us into our social castes - we're all just part of an experiment, I tell you!

However, every class is a necessary part of the complete system. Whether you consider a particular class 'better' than another is up you - in Aldous Huxley's Brave New World, every citizen of the New World was conditioned to love his/her job and hate others' ("I'd hate to be an Alpha, they work so hard...").

For example Lainee, even though one day you might be managing me, I'd NEVER want to do commerce or law! Booooorring!! In fact, I'm thinking: "Poor Lainee, she has to do Commerce AND Law! She's so unlucky!" On the other hand, you think: "Hah! Lowly engineer/scientist!"

You see, somebody needs to collect our garbage - and the ranking system makes sure that somebody will.

I'll always maintain that there aren't smarter or dumber people - just people who use their time differently. The 90% guy spent 90% of his time hunched over his textbooks. The 60% girl chose to spend 30% more time having hot kinky sex. I don't believe that too many people are 'naturally able to get 100%'. So people who go to TAFE or drop out of school simply chose to spend their mental and physical energies differently. I've chosen what I have because of interest, and I have no patience for snobs.

 

[stazi]

There are so many ways for us to get an education. The fact is that society needs all types of talents: barbers, mechanics, prostitutes (i'm serious) etc.
Most of those aren't achieved through a university education. People have different priorities. Some are very thorough and are good at remembering pages of 'useless' information: i.e. law.
Others are more creative and need to explore different ways of thinking i.e. philosophy
Then another group could just not fit in, but know they have a talent in something i.e. hairdressers, actors etc.
Generally speaking, I dont think a uni education is compulsory but is absolutely positive to ones development. The more intelligence we accumulate, the more we can participate in discussions and have friends of all different ranges of people.
"better person" is poorly worded. Someone aggressive who enjoys murdering children won't become a better person through uni.
the question should be more: "Is a uni education all it's hyped up to be? is it really all that necessary"?
I will quote dodgeball: "Necessary? is it necassary for me to drink my own urine? no. but i like the taste. And besides... it's sterile"

 

[clairegirl]

There are so many ways for us to get an education. The fact is that society needs all types of talents: barbers, mechanics, prostitutes (i'm serious) etc.
Most of those aren't achieved through a university education. People have different priorities. Some are very thorough and are good at remembering pages of 'useless' information: i.e. law.
Others are more creative and need to explore different ways of thinking i.e. philosophy
Then another group could just not fit in, but know they have a talent in something i.e. hairdressers, actors etc.
Generally speaking, I dont think a uni education is compulsory but is absolutely positive to ones development. The more intelligence we accumulate, the more we can participate in discussions and have friends of all different ranges of people.
"better person" is poorly worded. Someone aggressive who enjoys murdering children won't become a better person through uni.
the question should be more: "Is a uni education all it's hyped up to be? is it really all that necessary"?
I will quote dodgeball: "Necessary? is it necassary for me to drink my own urine? no. but i like the taste. And besides... it's sterile"

.......huh?

 

[absolution*]

Yes, i feel vastly superior to breaking.

 

[Shuter]

There are so many ways for us to get an education. The fact is that society needs all types of talents: barbers, mechanics, prostitutes (i'm serious) etc.
Most of those aren't achieved through a university education. People have different priorities. Some are very thorough and are good at remembering pages of 'useless' information: i.e. law.
Others are more creative and need to explore different ways of thinking i.e. philosophy
Then another group could just not fit in, but know they have a talent in something i.e. hairdressers, actors etc.
Generally speaking, I dont think a uni education is compulsory but is absolutely positive to ones development. The more intelligence we accumulate, the more we can participate in discussions and have friends of all different ranges of people.
"better person" is poorly worded. Someone aggressive who enjoys murdering children won't become a better person through uni.
the question should be more: "Is a uni education all it's hyped up to be? is it really all that necessary"?
I will quote dodgeball: "Necessary? is it necassary for me to drink my own urine? no. but i like the taste. And besides... it's sterile"

No more smoking weed and posting at 3am!

 

[SashatheMan]

If you made everone go to uni , yuo would have those thick idiots walking around trying to start people like in high sxhool. At least theri gone now

 

[Cape]

The way I view university is its expanding my knowledge of the area of which I am interested in. I could have done a similar course at TAFE, however, it doesn't focus on the designing aspect which I'm interested in.

I personally feel that a uni education doesn't make you a better person - its only increasing your knowledge about a certain area. Sure, the world needs doctors and lawyers etc, however, we also need the basics like plumbers and carptenders, however, these people aren't looked down upon. These people create a necessity for life.

Not everyone wants to go to university either, and people who don't want to go shouldn't be looked down upon. They all have different career goals and we need not only professionals who have graduated from university, but we also need tradespeople in order to make society the way it is.

 

[chookyn]

Is there too much value put on university education? Should there be more on the development of personal integrity and morality? Wouldn't that benefit society more?

Being intelligent people yourself, do you think you're guilty of intellectual snobbery? Are people somewhat inferior or intelligent if they go to TAFE or dropped out of high school?

IMHO, i think education and personal integrity/morality needs equal emphasis. There's no good in being a highly educated/trained 'immoral' person, just as there's no good being a poorly educated/trained 'moral' person. There needs to be a balance (side-note, education/training need not be at the university level to be considered useful, it could be TAFE, a traineeship/apprenticeship or anything that gives someone the skills and knowledge needed to earn a living. Any knowledge surpassing that level is not necessary but is obviously beneficial).

I don't believe the 'inferior' person exists, to suggest otherwise would be snobbish and arrogant. Like the human body, all parts (people) of the 'body' of society have a purpose to fulfill in order for the whole to function.
Example: Where would all the lawyers, doctors, businesspeople etc. live if there were no architects/draftspersons and tradespeople to design & build their homes? Where would they buy food if there were no people to manage and work in supermarkets? Likewise, supermarket employees and tradespeople wouldn't be able to earn a living if there were no demand for their services.

and yes, i believe there should be more emphasis on holistic education, hence why i study where i do. Quality education + good values (encouraged but not enforced) = why i chose Avondale. Education based on intellect alone is an insufficient basis for a healthy society.

 

[chookyn]

Those with a wider perspective are likely to be more understanding of those who are not as fortunate to receive such as extensive education.

good point..

whether secular or religious, i think people just need to be more understanding and tolerant of others, regardless of socioeconomics and education..

 

[LazyBoy]

Axos Yes the uai is a rank, but a rank of class i dont think so. Is it a rank of class, no. Because its merely an interpretation of how well you went at school. It doesnt mean that one person is more or less intelligent as there are many outside factors that effect this.

Asquithian, what makes you say that people who do not recieve such an extensive education is less fortunate?

Chookyn, we live in a mulicultural society. What about clashing cultures? such as lebonese culture brought to australia? should we be tollerant of cultures that support stoneing of women? should we be tollerant of cultures that go against tradition western values? There has to be a line in tollerance, where is it drawn. Do we tollerate cultures who impose female circumcision? do we tollerate cultures where bribary is an expected business practice? do we tolerate those who dont speak english?

 

[hello99999]

do we tolerate people who can't spell 'tolerate'?

 

[LazyBoy]

hey ever think i might be dislexic? im not, but what u could be making fun of someone with a medical problem.

Im a shit speller, get over it. read my sig for the disclaimer. Its the internet there is no real need to edit my work to correct my shocking draft spelling.

Btw im not saying that any culture in australia is bad, im just posing questions.

 

[Xayma]

IMHO, i think education and personal integrity/morality needs equal emphasis.

But who should choose what morals to follow. Many christians would think I'm an immoral person, however, I see nothing wrong with my morals, and in fact view some of what they are doing as immoral (the continual preaching to others in the case of mormons etc). I should not be taught Christian morals, and some of my morals should not be taught to others because they will most likely disagree with them.

Personal morality should not necessairly be given emphasis, that just encourages people to speak out against what they view as immoral, polygamy, homosexuality, gambling etc, even if it does not affect them. The law is a good enough distinguishing factor and it is always changing to keep in line with the changing values of society.

 

[LazyBoy]

although i agree that morality should not be dictated. But i disagree that the law is always changing to keep in line with values of society. In fact values change, then eventually law changes. Did you know that consortium was only made illegal in 1988. meaning before then a husband could rape his wife any time he wanted to. Also i dont think the law should be influenced by morality. Eg if abbortion is made illegal should i then think of it as immoral? no. I think all that should be dictated is the declration of human rights etc.

 

[Lainee]

I'm feeling that I opened up a can of worms.

Firstly, I don't disagree with LazyBoy that uni education is catered for some and not others. However, I think the core of my concern is that uni education has become an overwhelmingly large factor in what makes a good person, and how society can be improved.

It is my contention that education (in general, not just university) is often mistaken as synonymous with:
Teaching youth to develop their own framework of values and priorities in which to base their future life decisions on. eg. A woman sees a bunch of teenagers smoking in the park: "Doesn't school teach them anything?" The fact of the matter is that Year 7 PE taught them the hazardous effects of smoking, but did not establish the priority of 'personal health and being considerate to the fact that your smoking can damage other people's health' as a matter of ethics. Education gave them the facts but did not give them a context to evaluate those facts.

Don't get me wrong, this 'context' isn't a pre-determined one in which there is only distinct categorises of good and bad based on a dominant approach to life (eg. the Christian view), but a set of rules which which people can use to determine how they relate to things. Sort of like: "Do you understand the issue in question?" "Have you seen all possible sides of the argument?" "Have you related this issue to previous decisions you have made?" "Is it possible for you to come to one conclusion?" "What do you think influenced you to form this opinion?" "Can you accept that other people have a different opinion from you?"

This is part of the reason why I think uni education (in it's current form) is over-rated. Even high school education, to a lesser extent. In order for uni to become as distinct and important a criteria as it is now (eg. for so many parents to be pushing their kids to get into university, for degrees being regarded as a definate accomplish etc.) it should be teaching students to become better people (through the posing of aforementioned questions) not just better employees or academians.

Part of the problem, as I gauge it, is that the level of education one attains is more easily measured than most things and has somehow become a large part of the 'criteria' in how much a person is worth. So I could change the title of this thread to: Uni education - Increases individual value?

It's like property selling almost, just because a certain house has 'granite kitchen benchtops' the value of the property automatically rises. Education, specifically university education, has become a selling point for each individual - just like that granite kitchen benchtop. (See, that allusion did work in the end!)

It's simpler for a person selling a house to advertise the features that are easily recognisable by the public, is acknowledged as a advantageous feature and can be compared with other available houses than it is for them to publicise things like 'has been taken care of throughout lifetime of house rather than just beautified a month before selling'.

 

[hipsta_jess]

I feel in myself I'm a much better person since attending uni, I have a lot more knowledge and I am a LOT more open-minded.
However, I don't think that makes me better than people that haven't attended uni.

 

[LazyBoy]

Now i disagree with you. University is a training isnititon. Its not a unis job to manufacture people who are moral or what. Cause who can judge that. Just because that old lady hates smoking, doesnt make those teenagers doing it bad. (well it does in my opinion) but thats because its personal thing. If it was universities job, then everyone would have to conform to a certain set of values which is the opposite of what university is about. Seconldy it would be detromental to society because it would then create a class shift. If people went to uni and came out acting a certain way, they would look down on people who dont, Which is not good for society.

Any educational institution icnreases value economically. Because it trains people to become better participants in the workforce. It is up to the various cultures and sub cultures to develop there own sense of right and wrong and become better people

 

[LazyBoy]

it really depends what you define as a better person. I think the culture and environment that you can only get from uni, will change you as a person and usually make you a better person. Better as in personal best, not as in better then someone who doesnt go to university. Different experiences can mould people in different ways. I do beleive going to uni will make you a better person, but i and everyone just have to understand that its a better person in intrinsic sense rather then externally. If that makes sense.

Natstar, im not sure of the culture at UWS so i cant speak for that. But i know at USYD the deans recognise university as more than a training institute, they see it as a social and cultural experience aswell. So in my experience university is more than a place to get an education.

Do you care to comment on the UWS side of this, I spoke to a friend who changed from UWS to USYD and she said that UWS had no societies or clubs or whatever and really didnt encourage social gatherings as much as she found USYD does. Care to clarify or correct?