rockstar01
Member
Who is doing this years UMAT test? Has anyone started studying? If so how? And what do you want to do in 2006
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Umat 2005 (1 Viewer)
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Lexicographer
Retired 13 May 2006
I might do it for fun, depending how much they charge this time around. With two rounds under my belt I can tell you that your efforts would be far better directed at getting yourself into the HSC swing, rather than working on UMAT.
Lexicographer
Retired 13 May 2006
Ok, not to disagree with Wilson (since I don't know if he's saying no to me or to you) but let me put it another way. Right now it's just on the middle of January. You have between now and Trials time to prepare for UMAT, and (according to BoS timer) 272 days before the HSC.
Now, with the UMAT, "studying" in the HSC sense is not only unnecessary, but may even be counter-productive. In fact, as a test designed to require absolutely no prior preparation, ACER expects people to walk in and generate results based on their inate abilities alone. This of course is unrealistic for most people, who fairly engage in some form of preparation (more on that later).
Now consider the HSC. This year-long marathon of study and preparation requires and demands extreme devotion in order to achieve the marks required for consideration by medical schools. There is absolutely no way any sane person can walk into an exam without studying slave hours for a year and even hope to get into medicine (except maybe me, but that's a story for Thursday if I'm lucky). I'm sure if you go to a halfway decent school your teachers urged (perhaps even begged) you to do some work over the summer, because it could make all the difference between 89.00 and 90.00 later on (which, in Adelaide, is the difference between eligible and ineligible - and that's the lowest cutoff in the country). Cutoffs aside, we all know it takes a lot of work to reach the levels expected of medical candidates.
Now let's look at the requirements of UAI and UMAT across the different schools.
In NSW, UNSW determines interview allocation on a "decent" UMAT score (see their website) and projected or real UAI of no less than 98.00 (this part is undisclosed). Unless you get a predicted or real UAI that high, you're not studying med at UNSW. Newcastle is more kind, expecting scaled scores around 180 (mid to high range) with an academic eligibility threshold of around 93.80 - much lower than UNSW, but high nonetheless.
In Victoria, Melbourne university will admit candidates with pathetic UMAT scores (try 50th percentile) so long as they have a high enough ENTER. I can't say much about Monash, but from memory their interview allocation is based on UMAT (like Newcastle). I think they (like UNSW) weigh final selection ranking on an equal basis of UMAT, UAI and interview.
Tasmania, well, they rely on a combination of TER and UMAT for entry, but their course is extremely academic and the TER seems to hold far more weight.
Adelaide, as mentioned before, has the lowest TER threshold at 90.00 - like Newcastle, once you exceed this score your UAI becomes irrelevant. UMAT is used to determine interview allocation, and (again like Newcastle) interview performance determines selection ranking.
UWA selection is similar to UNSW, but with more equal weight on the UMAT and interview (rather than UAI bias like UNSW). Equal combination of TER, UMAT and interview to determine selection ranking.
As you can see, Wilson's comment about the UMAT having a large weight in medical selection is not unfounded. However, if you have a less than glamorous UMAT you can still save the day with a spiffy UAI, especially since you can always sit the UMAT again next year without too much hassle. A rusty UAI, however, will plague you and your sons unto the seventh generation. I know this from experience.
Most certainly get some materials and practice the UMAT if you feel you need to. But under NO circumstances should you put it on equal or higher priority to your HSC work. This year, school ALWAYS comes first.
Now, with the UMAT, "studying" in the HSC sense is not only unnecessary, but may even be counter-productive. In fact, as a test designed to require absolutely no prior preparation, ACER expects people to walk in and generate results based on their inate abilities alone. This of course is unrealistic for most people, who fairly engage in some form of preparation (more on that later).
Now consider the HSC. This year-long marathon of study and preparation requires and demands extreme devotion in order to achieve the marks required for consideration by medical schools. There is absolutely no way any sane person can walk into an exam without studying slave hours for a year and even hope to get into medicine (except maybe me, but that's a story for Thursday if I'm lucky). I'm sure if you go to a halfway decent school your teachers urged (perhaps even begged) you to do some work over the summer, because it could make all the difference between 89.00 and 90.00 later on (which, in Adelaide, is the difference between eligible and ineligible - and that's the lowest cutoff in the country). Cutoffs aside, we all know it takes a lot of work to reach the levels expected of medical candidates.
Now let's look at the requirements of UAI and UMAT across the different schools.
In NSW, UNSW determines interview allocation on a "decent" UMAT score (see their website) and projected or real UAI of no less than 98.00 (this part is undisclosed). Unless you get a predicted or real UAI that high, you're not studying med at UNSW. Newcastle is more kind, expecting scaled scores around 180 (mid to high range) with an academic eligibility threshold of around 93.80 - much lower than UNSW, but high nonetheless.
In Victoria, Melbourne university will admit candidates with pathetic UMAT scores (try 50th percentile) so long as they have a high enough ENTER. I can't say much about Monash, but from memory their interview allocation is based on UMAT (like Newcastle). I think they (like UNSW) weigh final selection ranking on an equal basis of UMAT, UAI and interview.
Tasmania, well, they rely on a combination of TER and UMAT for entry, but their course is extremely academic and the TER seems to hold far more weight.
Adelaide, as mentioned before, has the lowest TER threshold at 90.00 - like Newcastle, once you exceed this score your UAI becomes irrelevant. UMAT is used to determine interview allocation, and (again like Newcastle) interview performance determines selection ranking.
UWA selection is similar to UNSW, but with more equal weight on the UMAT and interview (rather than UAI bias like UNSW). Equal combination of TER, UMAT and interview to determine selection ranking.
As you can see, Wilson's comment about the UMAT having a large weight in medical selection is not unfounded. However, if you have a less than glamorous UMAT you can still save the day with a spiffy UAI, especially since you can always sit the UMAT again next year without too much hassle. A rusty UAI, however, will plague you and your sons unto the seventh generation. I know this from experience.
Most certainly get some materials and practice the UMAT if you feel you need to. But under NO circumstances should you put it on equal or higher priority to your HSC work. This year, school ALWAYS comes first.
rockstar01
Member
Thanks very much Lexi for taking the time to write that all up it was really helpful.
Just one more thing; can you please tell me what the marks are out of and about the percentiles too please.
Just one more thing; can you please tell me what the marks are out of and about the percentiles too please.
Lexicographer
Retired 13 May 2006
To be blunt, no and no. ACER doesn't disclose the maximum scaled mark for each section (they differ according to section and vary across years) so nobody knows what the marks are "out of" (more on this below).
As for the percentiles, well it's quite simple. If you performed better (ie your mark is better) than 79% of candidates, you are in the 79th percentile. Percentile ranks are relative to the cohort with which you sat the actual test, and so is not used by universities (it is purely an aid for the candidate in telling a strongly competitive score from a less competitive score). Scaled scores are equivalent across years (the scaling nullifies the effects of fluctuation in difficulty across years) and so can be compared regardless of year acquired. This is the reason universities are interested in your score but not your percentile.
Hmm, I guess I did talk about the percentiles after all.
As for the percentiles, well it's quite simple. If you performed better (ie your mark is better) than 79% of candidates, you are in the 79th percentile. Percentile ranks are relative to the cohort with which you sat the actual test, and so is not used by universities (it is purely an aid for the candidate in telling a strongly competitive score from a less competitive score). Scaled scores are equivalent across years (the scaling nullifies the effects of fluctuation in difficulty across years) and so can be compared regardless of year acquired. This is the reason universities are interested in your score but not your percentile.
Hmm, I guess I did talk about the percentiles after all.
inasero
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Ok, not to disagree with Wilson (since I don't know if he's saying no to me or to you) but let me put it another way. Right now it's just on the middle of January. You have between now and Trials time to prepare for UMAT, and (according to BoS timer) 272 days before the HSC.
Yep I was disagreeing with you.
Now, with the UMAT, "studying" in the HSC sense is not only unnecessary, but may even be counter-productive. In fact, as a test designed to require absolutely no prior preparation, ACER expects people to walk in and generate results based on their inate abilities alone. This of course is unrealistic for most people, who fairly engage in some form of preparation (more on that later).
I don't think it's counter productive. You and I both know that from first hand experience!
Now consider the HSC. This year-long marathon of study and preparation requires and demands extreme devotion in order to achieve the marks required for consideration by medical schools. There is absolutely no way any sane person can walk into an exam without studying slave hours for a year and even hope to get into medicine (except maybe me, but that's a story for Thursday if I'm lucky). I'm sure if you go to a halfway decent school your teachers urged (perhaps even begged) you to do some work over the summer, because it could make all the difference between 89.00 and 90.00 later on (which, in Adelaide, is the difference between eligible and ineligible - and that's the lowest cutoff in the country). Cutoffs aside, we all know it takes a lot of work to reach the levels expected of medical candidates.
Yes I agree, you need to work hard to get a good UAI/ENTER/whatever. But Robert, people don't study 24/7 and to expect them to do so would be unreasonable. I'm not saying students should devote half of their waking hours to the betterment of their UMAT scores because as you said, it's important to reach that UAI threshold. But at the end of the day it's weighted equally with other criteria at most universities. So at least they should think of the UMAT in equal terms.
Now let's look at the requirements of UAI and UMAT across the different schools.
In NSW, UNSW determines interview allocation on a "decent" UMAT score (see their website) and projected or real UAI of no less than 98.00 (this part is undisclosed). Unless you get a predicted or real UAI that high, you're not studying med at UNSW. Newcastle is more kind, expecting scaled scores around 180 (mid to high range) with an academic eligibility threshold of around 93.80 - much lower than UNSW, but high nonetheless.
In Victoria, Melbourne university will admit candidates with pathetic UMAT scores (try 50th percentile) so long as they have a high enough ENTER. I can't say much about Monash, but from memory their interview allocation is based on UMAT (like Newcastle). I think they (like UNSW) weigh final selection ranking on an equal basis of UMAT, UAI and interview.
Yep you're right about Monash.
Tasmania, well, they rely on a combination of TER and UMAT for entry, but their course is extremely academic and the TER seems to hold far more weight.
I'm not sure about Tasmiania, they're weird?
Adelaide, as mentioned before, has the lowest TER threshold at 90.00 - like Newcastle, once you exceed this score your UAI becomes irrelevant. UMAT is used to determine interview allocation, and (again like Newcastle) interview performance determines selection ranking.
Isn't that all the more reason to make sure you succeed in the UMAT?
UWA selection is similar to UNSW, but with more equal weight on the UMAT and interview (rather than UAI bias like UNSW). Equal combination of TER, UMAT and interview to determine selection ranking.
Ditto...
As you can see, Wilson's comment about the UMAT having a large weight in medical selection is not unfounded. However, if you have a less than glamorous UMAT you can still save the day with a spiffy UAI, especially since you can always sit the UMAT again next year without too much hassle. A rusty UAI, however, will plague you and your sons unto the seventh generation. I know this from experience.
No you can't, only at Melb and UNSW. Plus to do the UMAT again next year isn't exactly "not much of a hassle". You have to waste another year of your life which isn't ideal when medicine is such a long haul and you want to get out there and earn money ASAP. Plus one year makes alot of difference in the super in the long run. Rememememember- compound interest!
Most certainly get some materials and practice the UMAT if you feel you need to. But under NO circumstances should you put it on equal or higher priority to your HSC work. This year, school ALWAYS comes first.
No, I don't think it's a matter of "feel the need to". I think it's like coaching for the HSC. It's a high stakes test and you need to do everything within your power to make sure you can improve your scores. ACER says you can't be coached or prepare for it. But obviously as Lexi has demonstrated, they are wrong.
I don't want to argue for arguments sake and granted, Robert has alot of valid points.But I think this kind of mentality needs to be changed if a person is really truly set on Medicine. Try to think of the UMAT on equal terms with the HSC unless of course you're using Medicine as a backup for a law or commerce degree or actuarial studies degree.
My next point is that you need to study a hell of alot to increase UAI points by a little, but you only need to study a little to dramatically improve your UMAT (fortunately I didn't have to find out the hard way). So it would be wise to invest a little time towards the pursuit of better UMAT scores.
Yep I was disagreeing with you.
Now, with the UMAT, "studying" in the HSC sense is not only unnecessary, but may even be counter-productive. In fact, as a test designed to require absolutely no prior preparation, ACER expects people to walk in and generate results based on their inate abilities alone. This of course is unrealistic for most people, who fairly engage in some form of preparation (more on that later).
I don't think it's counter productive. You and I both know that from first hand experience!
Now consider the HSC. This year-long marathon of study and preparation requires and demands extreme devotion in order to achieve the marks required for consideration by medical schools. There is absolutely no way any sane person can walk into an exam without studying slave hours for a year and even hope to get into medicine (except maybe me, but that's a story for Thursday if I'm lucky). I'm sure if you go to a halfway decent school your teachers urged (perhaps even begged) you to do some work over the summer, because it could make all the difference between 89.00 and 90.00 later on (which, in Adelaide, is the difference between eligible and ineligible - and that's the lowest cutoff in the country). Cutoffs aside, we all know it takes a lot of work to reach the levels expected of medical candidates.
Yes I agree, you need to work hard to get a good UAI/ENTER/whatever. But Robert, people don't study 24/7 and to expect them to do so would be unreasonable. I'm not saying students should devote half of their waking hours to the betterment of their UMAT scores because as you said, it's important to reach that UAI threshold. But at the end of the day it's weighted equally with other criteria at most universities. So at least they should think of the UMAT in equal terms.
Now let's look at the requirements of UAI and UMAT across the different schools.
In NSW, UNSW determines interview allocation on a "decent" UMAT score (see their website) and projected or real UAI of no less than 98.00 (this part is undisclosed). Unless you get a predicted or real UAI that high, you're not studying med at UNSW. Newcastle is more kind, expecting scaled scores around 180 (mid to high range) with an academic eligibility threshold of around 93.80 - much lower than UNSW, but high nonetheless.
In Victoria, Melbourne university will admit candidates with pathetic UMAT scores (try 50th percentile) so long as they have a high enough ENTER. I can't say much about Monash, but from memory their interview allocation is based on UMAT (like Newcastle). I think they (like UNSW) weigh final selection ranking on an equal basis of UMAT, UAI and interview.
Yep you're right about Monash.
Tasmania, well, they rely on a combination of TER and UMAT for entry, but their course is extremely academic and the TER seems to hold far more weight.
I'm not sure about Tasmiania, they're weird?
Adelaide, as mentioned before, has the lowest TER threshold at 90.00 - like Newcastle, once you exceed this score your UAI becomes irrelevant. UMAT is used to determine interview allocation, and (again like Newcastle) interview performance determines selection ranking.
Isn't that all the more reason to make sure you succeed in the UMAT?
UWA selection is similar to UNSW, but with more equal weight on the UMAT and interview (rather than UAI bias like UNSW). Equal combination of TER, UMAT and interview to determine selection ranking.
Ditto...
As you can see, Wilson's comment about the UMAT having a large weight in medical selection is not unfounded. However, if you have a less than glamorous UMAT you can still save the day with a spiffy UAI, especially since you can always sit the UMAT again next year without too much hassle. A rusty UAI, however, will plague you and your sons unto the seventh generation. I know this from experience.
No you can't, only at Melb and UNSW. Plus to do the UMAT again next year isn't exactly "not much of a hassle". You have to waste another year of your life which isn't ideal when medicine is such a long haul and you want to get out there and earn money ASAP. Plus one year makes alot of difference in the super in the long run. Rememememember- compound interest!
Most certainly get some materials and practice the UMAT if you feel you need to. But under NO circumstances should you put it on equal or higher priority to your HSC work. This year, school ALWAYS comes first.
No, I don't think it's a matter of "feel the need to". I think it's like coaching for the HSC. It's a high stakes test and you need to do everything within your power to make sure you can improve your scores. ACER says you can't be coached or prepare for it. But obviously as Lexi has demonstrated, they are wrong.
I don't want to argue for arguments sake and granted, Robert has alot of valid points.But I think this kind of mentality needs to be changed if a person is really truly set on Medicine. Try to think of the UMAT on equal terms with the HSC unless of course you're using Medicine as a backup for a law or commerce degree or actuarial studies degree.
My next point is that you need to study a hell of alot to increase UAI points by a little, but you only need to study a little to dramatically improve your UMAT (fortunately I didn't have to find out the hard way). So it would be wise to invest a little time towards the pursuit of better UMAT scores.
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Lexicographer
Retired 13 May 2006
Damnit Wilson, couldn't you enclose my stuff in quotes or something? It's hard trying to read your responses.
Edit: I ran through it and agree with most of your stuff, I probably wasn't saying what I meant to very well (I'd just got back from work after all, and you know what that means).
I still don't think the UMAT can be treated like the HSC, especially since the fundamental concepts test completely different things. I will always be against "studying" for the UMAT, however practice and preperation are completely different and a little of both will take you a long way (as they did me, mentioned by Wilson).
This, I think, is Wilson's best statement:
Edit: I ran through it and agree with most of your stuff, I probably wasn't saying what I meant to very well (I'd just got back from work after all, and you know what that means).
I still don't think the UMAT can be treated like the HSC, especially since the fundamental concepts test completely different things. I will always be against "studying" for the UMAT, however practice and preperation are completely different and a little of both will take you a long way (as they did me, mentioned by Wilson).
This, I think, is Wilson's best statement:
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ishq
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Going back to the topic, yes, i , for one, do want to have a go at the UMAT this July.
The aspect about the whole 'getting in' procedure that freaks me out, is the interview. But, i think i will just have to cross the hurdles one at a time. So, i am basically concentrating on getting to the interview stage first.
So, the HSC is top priority. However, i think, when June/July come along, hours being devoted to the UMAT will naturally increase. In my opinion, spending an enormous amount of time on it now is unnecessary.
Am i on the right track here?
The aspect about the whole 'getting in' procedure that freaks me out, is the interview. But, i think i will just have to cross the hurdles one at a time. So, i am basically concentrating on getting to the interview stage first.
So, the HSC is top priority. However, i think, when June/July come along, hours being devoted to the UMAT will naturally increase. In my opinion, spending an enormous amount of time on it now is unnecessary.
Am i on the right track here?
Lexicographer
Retired 13 May 2006
Well, this topic has been discussed at length on AusMedStudent, and a lot of people mention "UMAT burnout" in people who start preparing too early. I know of some people who back in the day would see §III shapes in EVERYTHING they looked at.
m111
Define "cynical"
I'm up for the UMAT this year too... Probably be doing the AMEPP prep course... will I see ne one there?
How did u go Lexi?
How did u go Lexi?
Keen
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Lexi did really well
You'll see a lot of people there (probably ~1000 at each testing centre) but it's not time to make friends.
Click onto the AusMedStudent link in Lexi's signature and you'll find a lot (do a search before asking questions (with many questions answered already).
Keen
You'll see a lot of people there (probably ~1000 at each testing centre) but it's not time to make friends.
Click onto the AusMedStudent link in Lexi's signature and you'll find a lot (do a search before asking questions (with many questions answered already).
Keen
moz
Med Student
I got 208 in umat 2005 (and thats first time i sat it) and didnt go to any courses or stuff like that. personally i believe they're a waste of money, but I can also understand that they can help people who are not naturally inclined to score well on umat to score better.
So if your like me and cant afford to do any courses for umat, take heart!!! i did average in uai, didnt do any umat courses or any interview prep and still made it into my first preference (Med @ Newcastle 2005)
and if u cant afford courses but still want to study for umat, theres heaps i've seen on the internet for free u can do and feel free to contact me about the interviews for 06 and i'll tell u what i can remember
So if your like me and cant afford to do any courses for umat, take heart!!! i did average in uai, didnt do any umat courses or any interview prep and still made it into my first preference (Med @ Newcastle 2005)
and if u cant afford courses but still want to study for umat, theres heaps i've seen on the internet for free u can do and feel free to contact me about the interviews for 06 and i'll tell u what i can remember
Lexicographer
Retired 13 May 2006
208 scales scored? Respect. I got 206 on my second shot, with some small preparation for §III shapes and no interview preparation (but no offers ).
Given the fact that I'm still a Nano student, it looks like I won't just be doing it again for fun after all. Still, I don't need to score any higher for interviews - maybe just the UMAT stream at Melbourne.
).Given the fact that I'm still a Nano student, it looks like I won't just be doing it again for fun after all. Still, I don't need to score any higher for interviews - maybe just the UMAT stream at Melbourne.
moz
Med Student
yeah lexi with 206 u dont need to sit umat again, that'll eb plenty to get u interview offers for next yr. u go out for all the unis or just particular ones? i went out for newy and unsw but put newy first pref cause its a better course (PBL), shorter and much cheaper to live at!! (and i'm on my own these days, i have to pay for everything in my lfie myself.. so cheap is better! and shorter degree=less hecs and less accom fees!!)
best of luck in 2006!.. maybe in 2006 your score of 206 will umm.. get u ranked 26th and thus into med!!!
best of luck in 2006!.. maybe in 2006 your score of 206 will umm.. get u ranked 26th and thus into med!!!
Lexicographer
Retired 13 May 2006
Haha, well, I have a feeling I seriously need to look over my interview responses, since that's the only way I could've been denied Newcastle.
As for doing UMAT again, I know I don't really need to, and that takes a lot of pressure off but I guess after doing it twice it's not about the interviews anymore? Haha this'll sound terrible to everyone who has trouble with the UMAT and I apologise, but I had fun and I see it as more of a challenge to better my own scores than anything else.
Sure it's a waste of $50 (health care card) but I want to see three 99s
Edit: Post 6300
As for doing UMAT again, I know I don't really need to, and that takes a lot of pressure off but I guess after doing it twice it's not about the interviews anymore? Haha this'll sound terrible to everyone who has trouble with the UMAT and I apologise, but I had fun and I see it as more of a challenge to better my own scores than anything else.
Sure it's a waste of $50 (health care card) but I want to see three 99s
Edit: Post 6300