Science and Philosophy (1 Viewer)

[Zarathustra]

I have decided to study science and philosophy, as philosophy will be a broad area which will hopefully make me more employable. I also plan to specialise in the biological sciences - which uni would be the best for this?
I've only heard about ANU's philosophy department being the best in Australia, though nothing about other universities.

 

[doe]

usyd seems to be the bees knees for philosophy in sydney. im reading the book "corrupting the youth" at the mo and the usyd phil department features prominently

 

[MoonlightSonata]

Firstly, at least perception-wise, philosophy does not equate to employability --

"A philosophy major, what are you going to do with that?"
Bruce Lee: "Think deep thoughts about being unemployed."

That said it a valuable subject to take up to enhance critical thinking, reasoning and argument abilities. If you combine it with something more substantial (ie. practical -- as you seem to want to do) then it would simply be a boon to your real degree.

Secondly, as mentioned above, USyd is regarded as the best in Australia when it comes to philosophy. I was pretty impressed with my year of philosophy studied there.

Thirdly, do you know what you are planning to do for your career?

 

[Zarathustra]

I plan to practice biotechnology - whatever that will entail. I am aware that in this field that there will be many situations where a solid philosophical background may home in handy, such as questioning myslef or others "where does begin" etc.
I am mainly doing philosophy because I enjoy it and would hopefully perform well at it. This would also have to improve my thinking and this must be of help to all areas of science (and life). Although I have heard that a philosophy degree does demonstrate to employers an ability to think through problems beyond any other degree, I am aware that the employment prospect stemming directly form philosphy are limited.

That is a great quote from Bruce Lee - and a case in point, his study of philosophy enabled him to write and think more clearly and enriched his life.
I saw that book "corrupting the youth" being discussed on the community channel 31, and it seemed interesting. I just read a review of it from the age and in that review the author says "undoubtedly the present book is Sydney-centric. If anyone can write a book on Why Melbourne Philosophy is Interesting After All, I am all for it." So perhaps he just forgot about Canberra...

 

[Lexicographer]

As a nanotechnology students we come into very close contact with our friends in biotech (especially since my field is all set to eat up their field ) and I must say I've never seen or heard anything to confirm that Philosophy would be useful in biotechnology. The most highly stressed criterion for success in biotech has always been a strong understanding of scientific method and theory. Of course, a background in philosophy will certainly help you with the extremely popular ethical side of biotechnology.

 

[Lexicographer]

On a side note, I've been talking to a lot of people and I'm fairly certain that USyd has a particularly good record in molecular biology. I'm not sure if this extends to greater biology, but it sounds promising.

 

[Zarathustra]

Could someone scan the philsophy and biotechnology (or biological science) pages of teh good guide. (I'm far to cheap to aactually buy it...)

So Lexi you would advise me to go to USyd (even over UTS) for biotechnology?
At ANU I was planning on doing a B science/B Commerce and that having all my electives philosophy subjects (including those semi-science ones such as the philosphy of biology etc.)

 

[Kierkegaard]

If you're interested in the philosophy of science side, I suggest USyd over ANU. If you're interested in philosophy for the applied ethics related to biotech, I suggest ANU.

I'm doing a BA/BSc at either UTAS, UQ or ANU; with a view to studying the philosophy of science. If that's what you're looking at, I would recommend UTAS before I recommend ANU.

 

[Zarathustra]

I'm more interested in epistemology rather than ethics, so maybe USyd will be the safer bet. The philosophy will take a backseat to the science though because I'm after a job at the end of my degree moreso than broadening my mind (I've already sold out...)
I haven't heard much about UTAS - thanks for telling me about it.
USyd also has a nice specialised molecular biotechnology degree - so I might try for that.
P.S. Does anyone know the advantages of biotech. at UNSW - it is the only pass biotech. degree that takes 4 years to complete. I woud rather do biotech innovation at UTS plus a diploma in scientific practice or honours (if I were leaning towards research)...

 

[Survivor39]

If you like philosophy, maybe you could consider HPS - History and Philosophy of Science. It would be more relevant to your science degree.

 

[Slidey]

I'm looking to do some sort of maths major with a bit of psych/phil mixed in. Let's see how you go, Zara.

 

[Zarathustra]

If you're interested in the philosophy of science side, I suggest USyd over ANU. If you're interested in philosophy for the applied ethics related to biotech, I suggest ANU.

I'm doing a BA/BSc at either UTAS, UQ or ANU; with a view to studying the philosophy of science. If that's what you're looking at, I would recommend UTAS before I recommend ANU.

Kierkegaard (if that is your real name... ) why haven't you considered going to Sydney seeing as that would seem more appropriate, re your advice?
I got a UAI of 89.15 so I doubt I'll make it into a BSc/BA at USyd but will most likely make it into one at UNSW or ANU.
I talked to a lady from ANU at the information day and she said that ANU was ramked third in philosphy in the world, so I'm pretty confident that they'll be adequate for my meagre needs.
Wow, I still can't believe that Lexicographer recommended USyd over UTS in biology - I am going to take that advice seriously :uhhuh:.
Still, if I make it into a science/business double degree at UTS I'll take that because I always put practicality over navel gazing...
Good luck Slide rule - with your goals.

 

[Kierkegaard]

Class distinctions restrict me from affording it...


...plus, I'm from Queensland.

 

[Lexicographer]

Yes, the molecular biology and medical science departments at USyd are stronger than those of UTS, particularly for students with an eye on research. This is not the same as biotechnology, which has more of an emphasis on materials science and mechanical engineering for biological systems. A UTS degree in biotechnology will still be strongly competitive against a USyd degree when looking for research positions in the field of biotechnology. Take this with a grain of salt though - a good friend of our family is an experienced biochemist from Romania who has recently moved on to accounting after several frustrating years in the Australian research scene. She says compared to Europe, Australia has some of the laziest biochemistry labs around. She couldn't stand the time wasted on smoke breaks, coffee breaks, several lunch and snack breaks etc - just a total lack of progress.

Anyway, I stand by what I said for USyd being above UTS for molecular biology students with an academic career in mind. If you want to be able to work outside the university after graduating with your BSc though, UTS would be better for you. Just as many UTS Science graduates go on to complete PhDs and move into succesful academic science careers as USyd graduates, though they tend to take up lab posts after their degrees and come to research a few years later. The USyd path is more frequently shown to be BSc (Hons) and straight to PhD.

I hope this helps.

 

[Zarathustra]

Thank you, Lexicographer.
I was actually thinking of doing the pass degree at UTS combined with business or the innovation and then hopefully straight to work, or complete a diploma of scientific practice. So it does seem that UTS would be more appropriate for me, as my aim is to work in the private and eventually move into a management role - possibly by completing an MBA - although this woudl be far into the future.
With the new science building will biotechnology be taught from the city campus next year - because the commute to St Leonards could get tiresome...

 

[Slidey]

Class distinctions restrict me from affording it...

That sucks. That'd be me if certain things didn't happen. Good luck!

 

[Kierkegaard]

I'm relying on getting a scholarship worth at least $8,000 per annum. That's another reason why I'm planning on going to UTAS or ANU; they have great scholarships. If anyone steals a scholarship from me, I will be very unhappy. I'm quite nervous about getting a scholarship. The problem with Queensland is that we get a very general results. I got an OP 1, which is the best you can get here. It's equivalent to UAI 99+, but what exactly my UAI would be, I can never know. I used JUAI for my subject equivalents, which said that I'd get a 100. Changing one subject by one or two percent brings it down to a 99.95, so I'm on the line according to JUAI.

Sorry, I'm ranting--the nerves are killing me.

Zarathustra (If that is your real name...I hope it is!) good luck with the philosophy. If you ever get the chance to take a subject on Quine, do it! Your life will be changed forever; you may even drop the Nietzsche!

 

[Kierkegaard]

OP 1=99+ according to the conversion tables (including QTAC) that I've seen. Bear in mind, I've only lived in this state for 4 years; I'm not a product of Queensland. Just thought I'd clarify that and save myself any more embarassment. Queensland and I are mortal enemies--I grit my teeth and just wait for the day that I can move interstate.

what if a similar situation existed with a queensland university, where there were more OP1 applicants for a course than there were places?

636 OP 1 students. I doubt this, but at least it's possible. It's all discrete numbers, but at least you guys go in minute increments! My friend got an OP 2 with an average of 10% less than me! Maybe even more...

 

[Slidey]

I'm relying on getting a scholarship worth at least $8,000 per annum. That's another reason why I'm planning on going to UTAS or ANU; they have great scholarships. If anyone steals a scholarship from me, I will be very unhappy. I'm quite nervous about getting a scholarship. The problem with Queensland is that we get a very general results. I got an OP 1, which is the best you can get here. It's equivalent to UAI 99+, but what exactly my UAI would be, I can never know. I used JUAI for my subject equivalents, which said that I'd get a 100. Changing one subject by one or two percent brings it down to a 99.95, so I'm on the line according to JUAI.

Sorry, I'm ranting--the nerves are killing me.

Zarathustra (If that is your real name...I hope it is!) good luck with the philosophy. If you ever get the chance to take a subject on Quine, do it! Your life will be changed forever; you may even drop the Nietzsche!

I'm pretty damn sure you'll get a scholarship.

Though you do realise UNSW also has a MASSIVE array of scholraships available?

Zarathustra's name is from Nitzche.

600 or so people get OP1? Geez that IS broad. That probably covers UAI 95 or so onwards. Only about 20 people get UAI 100. But you have more than OP1 to back you up.

 

[Kierkegaard]

Thanks for the encouragement. I'm getting quite nervous over here.

I never looked at UNSW...a pity now that I think about it.

Indeed, 'Thus Spake Zarathustra', which he references back to in all his later works. Zarathustra was also a real philosopher from the middle east.

Yes, 600 people. It's the top 2%, generally one needs anything about a 90% average to get an OP 1. One must also rely on their QCS test. I got 201/230 in the QCS, which scales my marks up. Thanks for the words of encouragement, they're muchly appreciated.