Modern Hot Chic
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How did the failure of the Schlieffen Plan lead to stalemate on the Western front?
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Schlieffen Plan (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Modern Hot Chic
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The schlieffen plan aimed to defeat the French armies and capture Paris. The German army would then concentrate on fighting against the Russians.
However, the Germans failed to reach Paris and they were stopped and the River Marne. The Germans and allies (French + British) then headed towards the sea (english channel) to try outflank each other. There was then a trench line from the english channel to the swiss border ---> stalemate.
However, the Germans failed to reach Paris and they were stopped and the River Marne. The Germans and allies (French + British) then headed towards the sea (english channel) to try outflank each other. There was then a trench line from the english channel to the swiss border ---> stalemate.
tabularasa
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go to this site http://hsc.csu.edu.au/ then click on modern history then WWI then miltary plans. It has it all.
Brown_Queen
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hey Tabularasa,
your internet site was heaps helpful, it was great!
thanks
your internet site was heaps helpful, it was great!
thanks
uve prob got the answer by now but im gonna use this to 'revise' 
the schleiffen plan was based on assumptions:
- that russia would take 6 weeks minimum to mobilise, when in fact it was less.
- that britain would not live up to the Treaty of London
there are other factors too, such as:
- Moltke's modifications to the original plan, allowing for a counteroffensive by the BEP, the 5th and 6th French armies - leading to the the Battle of the Marne
wahh i cant believe i remember that!
the schleiffen plan was based on assumptions:
- that russia would take 6 weeks minimum to mobilise, when in fact it was less.
- that britain would not live up to the Treaty of London
there are other factors too, such as:
- Moltke's modifications to the original plan, allowing for a counteroffensive by the BEP, the 5th and 6th French armies - leading to the the Battle of the Marne
wahh i cant believe i remember that!
According to "The Illustrated History of World War 1" (Andy Wiest, 2001), pg 35, there is another factor that can be taken into account. Plan 17 was known to the Germans, and with the French advancing into Alsace-Lorraine the Germans planned to be able to bypass the French forces and capture Paris, leaving enough forces on the defensive in Alsace-lorraine to hold the ground while keeping the french busy until the Germans had adavanced to paris. However, in 1914 the French offensive was a major victory for the Germans, and the local commander, which included significant aristocratic figures such as Prince Rupprecht of German 6th Army, requested permission to counter attack. Moltke allowed this and as a result the French armies were driven back, closer to Paris and in a better position to react to the German advance in the north. These armies, which under the Schlieffen plan were meant to be bogged down in Alsace-Lorraine and unable to react quickly enough to stop the Germans from getting Paris were much closer and able to participate in the Marne. This may not have been the critical reason for German defeat at the Marne, but I believe it contributed.
Jennibeans
Member
Also that the original Schlieffan Plan was written in the later 1800s (can't remember which year). When it was implemented in 1914, von Moltke changed parts of it. there's strong historical arguments that say his changes doomed the plan to failure.
The basic thing to get is that the plan was meant to eliminate the French from the war and it didn't. The reason Britain got involved was because it was coming to the aid of France. If France had been wiped out like planned Germany could have focused on demolishing Russia and there would never have been a Western Front as it existed in WW1
The basic thing to get is that the plan was meant to eliminate the French from the war and it didn't. The reason Britain got involved was because it was coming to the aid of France. If France had been wiped out like planned Germany could have focused on demolishing Russia and there would never have been a Western Front as it existed in WW1
sunjet
Hip-Hop Saved My Life
Schlieffen Plan failed
• Moltke – lacked faith in idea of short war – led to indecision
• The changes to the plan – weakened its bold concept
• Schlieffen’ underestimation of difficulities faced by army – they had to advance 640km through Belgium and then > E of Paris – so fast
• The rapid deployment of the BEF (British Expeditionary Forces) – surprised Germany
• Moltke staying to distant from the fighting, while Joffre (French Supreme Commander) was more closely involved
• Germany faced more problems (of supply and communication) as they moved further from their bases
• Better Allied knowledge of German movement (using observation aircraft). Germany didn’t know where the enemy was
• Germany underestimated Belgium resistance
• Germany underestimated speed of Russian mobilization
• Germany under estimated reaction of Great Britain to violation of Neutrality Treaty
• Moltke – lacked faith in idea of short war – led to indecision
• The changes to the plan – weakened its bold concept
• Schlieffen’ underestimation of difficulities faced by army – they had to advance 640km through Belgium and then > E of Paris – so fast
• The rapid deployment of the BEF (British Expeditionary Forces) – surprised Germany
• Moltke staying to distant from the fighting, while Joffre (French Supreme Commander) was more closely involved
• Germany faced more problems (of supply and communication) as they moved further from their bases
• Better Allied knowledge of German movement (using observation aircraft). Germany didn’t know where the enemy was
• Germany underestimated Belgium resistance
• Germany underestimated speed of Russian mobilization
• Germany under estimated reaction of Great Britain to violation of Neutrality Treaty
nwatts
Active Member
Germans were idiots? Good enough reason?
I remember my prelim yearly. Completely ran out of time. We did the 'Beginning of the 20th Century' module. Short answer question: "Briefly describe the causes of WWI". My answer: "Nobody likes the Germans". 2/10
I remember my prelim yearly. Completely ran out of time. We did the 'Beginning of the 20th Century' module. Short answer question: "Briefly describe the causes of WWI". My answer: "Nobody likes the Germans". 2/10
but why....
FIRENDS FOREVER!!
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there is also the fact the the 5th french army was lead by a bit rebel who went against orders and instead of moving to the wester front moved to the border to buligum. however saying that the reasons that have already been stated were more important to the failure of the plan esp the changes that were made.. though "no one liked the germans" is also good lol.
Mini Meiser
New Member
Why did we win the war?
If the Germans had won Hitler would never have happened, the zionist jews would never have blown up that hotel and Mugabe wouldnt be zimbabwe's president! Thats terrible!
In all 5,704,416 men served in the British army between August 1914 and November 1918 and of these, 2,471,142 became casualties. (Becket).
If the Germans had won Hitler would never have happened, the zionist jews would never have blown up that hotel and Mugabe wouldnt be zimbabwe's president! Thats terrible!
In all 5,704,416 men served in the British army between August 1914 and November 1918 and of these, 2,471,142 became casualties. (Becket).
hmm...Mini Meiser said:
I guess if Germany imposed a Versailles-like thing over England
(Which would have been worse, if the Brest-litovsk is anything to go by)
A Hitler-like wierdo could have gained power in Britain
[I dont know much about mugabe apart from that he's a tool]
rozzapezza
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Why did it cause stalemate?
The failure of the Schlieffen plan was due to many different factors. First of all General Moltke changed the plan from its original conception into an offensive that was based more on the "hinge" of the thrust foward and less on the "hammer" thus meaning that Moltke reinforced the troops closer to Alsalce Lorraine and weakened the thrust of troops that would travel through Belgium and sweep through France to take Paris. Also Germany changed the plan so it didn't invade Holland, because Germany wished to keep a good trading relationship with Holland during the war, this had the effect of creating a bottleneck which the troops had to cram through in order to reach mainland France. This consequently slowed down the German assault, and because the assault was planned to the minute, with Train times and the mobilization of forces, the schlieffen plan lost its direction and in effect the plan became obsolete, from there on in the Germans had to improvise. Also the Germans were not expecting the resistance that the Belgians gave them, the Germans had to fight 3 long battles with the Belgians and that also slowed them down considerably. Also The introduction of the BEF, and the participation of the British Force slowed the Germans down and began to break up their formation. This time was vital for the French to bring up their army and abandon Plan 17, thus resulting in the conflict on the River Marne. It is also important to note that the Russian forces mobilized much quicker than expected and Moltke subsequently halved his force inorder to send the bulk of the troops to fight the greater threat and reinforce the Eastern Front. The Battle of the Marne was a huge success for the French due to the tactics employed by both the French and English. The BEF basically cut a hole right down the middle of the German force and split it in two thus allowing the French to overpower the German force and send them into a retreat. One must also consider that movement of soldeirs was slow due to the fact that there was a hiatus in military tactics and technology at the start of the war, as cavalry was still considered the main wepaon and machine guns could easily prevent the use of cavalry, thus more importance was stressed on the individual soldeir, who often carried around a large pack of supplies and ammo that slowed him down. This in effect slowed the Germans down once more. Some say that WW1 was lost at the battle of the Marne, and from then on in it was inevitable that the Germans would lose the war due to the pressures that they would come under as their country was encircled and could easily become blockaded (Germany only had enough resources to provide them with a 6 month war). Basically Germans retreated, dug in, used machine guns to protect themselves and their trenches, thus the British and French also dug in for cover. There was a race to the sea, and tactics didn't change until relatively late in the war, with the help of new technology that alllowed them to do so.
The failure of the Schlieffen plan was due to many different factors. First of all General Moltke changed the plan from its original conception into an offensive that was based more on the "hinge" of the thrust foward and less on the "hammer" thus meaning that Moltke reinforced the troops closer to Alsalce Lorraine and weakened the thrust of troops that would travel through Belgium and sweep through France to take Paris. Also Germany changed the plan so it didn't invade Holland, because Germany wished to keep a good trading relationship with Holland during the war, this had the effect of creating a bottleneck which the troops had to cram through in order to reach mainland France. This consequently slowed down the German assault, and because the assault was planned to the minute, with Train times and the mobilization of forces, the schlieffen plan lost its direction and in effect the plan became obsolete, from there on in the Germans had to improvise. Also the Germans were not expecting the resistance that the Belgians gave them, the Germans had to fight 3 long battles with the Belgians and that also slowed them down considerably. Also The introduction of the BEF, and the participation of the British Force slowed the Germans down and began to break up their formation. This time was vital for the French to bring up their army and abandon Plan 17, thus resulting in the conflict on the River Marne. It is also important to note that the Russian forces mobilized much quicker than expected and Moltke subsequently halved his force inorder to send the bulk of the troops to fight the greater threat and reinforce the Eastern Front. The Battle of the Marne was a huge success for the French due to the tactics employed by both the French and English. The BEF basically cut a hole right down the middle of the German force and split it in two thus allowing the French to overpower the German force and send them into a retreat. One must also consider that movement of soldeirs was slow due to the fact that there was a hiatus in military tactics and technology at the start of the war, as cavalry was still considered the main wepaon and machine guns could easily prevent the use of cavalry, thus more importance was stressed on the individual soldeir, who often carried around a large pack of supplies and ammo that slowed him down. This in effect slowed the Germans down once more. Some say that WW1 was lost at the battle of the Marne, and from then on in it was inevitable that the Germans would lose the war due to the pressures that they would come under as their country was encircled and could easily become blockaded (Germany only had enough resources to provide them with a 6 month war). Basically Germans retreated, dug in, used machine guns to protect themselves and their trenches, thus the British and French also dug in for cover. There was a race to the sea, and tactics didn't change until relatively late in the war, with the help of new technology that alllowed them to do so.