fashionista
Tastes like chicken
wut bit i wanna noooeee
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RFTG: the bone people by keri hume (1 Viewer)
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Rahul
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its when joe sleeps over at kere's house, and simon and him share the bed or something.
the incident isnt 'sick' in any form though....like it has nothing to do with simon, as what might be assumed.
the incident isnt 'sick' in any form though....like it has nothing to do with simon, as what might be assumed.
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umm, no?
If the characters aren't vivid, go and read the book again. Its a damn depressing book.
But as someone said, if at first the taste is passing strange, persist, it can be quite rewarding (to reword Keri).
And as for saying the WHOLE book is perverted, you like to give 3 more examples? I bet you can't give three more examples of perversion in the book.
*prays to god I haven't forgotten anything*
If the characters aren't vivid, go and read the book again. Its a damn depressing book.
She isn't a lesbian. Asexual, I think she called it. She DOESN'T condone bashing the child. In fact, I distinctly remember she aikido's the crap outta Joe, mostly cause Joe hit Simon. And the the masturbation bit, yeah, I know it was wierd, but it wasn't related to Simon in anyway, not even related to Kerewin.
But as someone said, if at first the taste is passing strange, persist, it can be quite rewarding (to reword Keri).
And as for saying the WHOLE book is perverted, you like to give 3 more examples? I bet you can't give three more examples of perversion in the book.
*prays to god I haven't forgotten anything*= Jennifer =
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i am up to my second reading, the second reading is so much clearer
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yeah, it is, isn't it? Like the absolute beginning, I had no clue what the author was on about when I first read it. I thought the book was going to be shit after I read that.
And the bit where that guy tells Kerewin that he wants Joe to know that he wants to talk about a dog. I was like, wtf?
And the bit where that guy tells Kerewin that he wants Joe to know that he wants to talk about a dog. I was like, wtf?
= Jennifer =
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yeah i know what you mean
Rahul
Dead Member
"i think i might start reading this soon, but it looks awfully difficult at first glance."
it was exactly the same for me. the first 30-40 pages were excruciating....it just didnt seem to make sense.
but as you get into the story, the jagged structure makes it easy to read. it is just a flow of ideas.
it also seemed to be a powerful book, in terms of content. looks at a lot of everyday things...like relationships, violence, etc. its also a very spiritual text.
i suppose i liked it coz it was a bit more creative, in a sense...
it was exactly the same for me. the first 30-40 pages were excruciating....it just didnt seem to make sense.
but as you get into the story, the jagged structure makes it easy to read. it is just a flow of ideas.
it also seemed to be a powerful book, in terms of content. looks at a lot of everyday things...like relationships, violence, etc. its also a very spiritual text.
i suppose i liked it coz it was a bit more creative, in a sense...
= Jennifer =
Active Member
in reference to the book:
what is the social, historical,cultural context of new zealand?
what is the social, historical,cultural context of new zealand?
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sorry Jennifer, no idea yet. Haven't researched that stuff yet. Years only started.
But I totally agree with Rahul. The whole book is a flow of ideas that FLOW. awesome, trust me. The first few pages (10-15 or so) aren't meant to make an awful amount of sense, I think. But survive that bit and you'll be hooked.
I dunno about it being a VERY spiritual book. It has a fair bit of Maori myth/religion, which might seem unusual when read but fairly interesting.
The violence and everyday happenings is VERY well depicted. I have never seen a book which tells of everyday stuff the way "The Bone People" does. How often do you read of a relationship like the one Simon and Joe have?
But I totally agree with Rahul. The whole book is a flow of ideas that FLOW. awesome, trust me. The first few pages (10-15 or so) aren't meant to make an awful amount of sense, I think. But survive that bit and you'll be hooked.
I dunno about it being a VERY spiritual book. It has a fair bit of Maori myth/religion, which might seem unusual when read but fairly interesting.
The violence and everyday happenings is VERY well depicted. I have never seen a book which tells of everyday stuff the way "The Bone People" does. How often do you read of a relationship like the one Simon and Joe have?
Rahul
Dead Member
in reference to the book:
what is the social, historical,cultural context of new zealand?
social context- i am thinking it is the way of the maori. one example would be their violent nature. how that has been part of their community etc.
historical- almost definitely the invasion of the pakeha. how that has effected their lives, as individuals and as a community.
cultural- would be the artistic way of the maori. probably most evident in the way kere embraces her 'maori-ness' - through music, art, painting. there was a quote about her painting was part of her that she searched for, or somthing along those lines.
if i remember correctly, the start of the novel links chronologically with the conclusion, with the chunk in the middle being recollections? not sure.
i think it is a very spiritual book. perhaps not religious. i dont see the concept of being spiritual related with myth, etc. but moreso dealing with inner moral and values.
what is the social, historical,cultural context of new zealand?
social context- i am thinking it is the way of the maori. one example would be their violent nature. how that has been part of their community etc.
historical- almost definitely the invasion of the pakeha. how that has effected their lives, as individuals and as a community.
cultural- would be the artistic way of the maori. probably most evident in the way kere embraces her 'maori-ness' - through music, art, painting. there was a quote about her painting was part of her that she searched for, or somthing along those lines.
if i remember correctly, the start of the novel links chronologically with the conclusion, with the chunk in the middle being recollections? not sure.
i think it is a very spiritual book. perhaps not religious. i dont see the concept of being spiritual related with myth, etc. but moreso dealing with inner moral and values.
= Jennifer =
Active Member
with the idea of retreat (either being forced or chosen) what are some examples of forced retreat in the book?
i thought: Simon's muteness as well as Kerewin's desire to paint before she lost her creativity is there any more?
i thought: Simon's muteness as well as Kerewin's desire to paint before she lost her creativity is there any more?
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Social context: I disagree. Maori weren't violent at all. They only became violent around the time of the release of this book. And the book itself is not trying to present the violence ofthe Maori's. Observe, from Keri Hulme's own mouth:
Historical context: Once again, imho you are not really correct. This is the time when NZ embraced globalisation to the max. No preparation, just made free trade available. NZ economy went down the drain, NZ's internal economy got stuffed. Unemployment soared, Maori's got their reputation for drinking/domestic violence in this period. Also, NZ decided to assert itself as a self in the world. Refused entrance to American warships around about this time.
Trust me, there is a lot of historical context, research it.
Cultural Context: hrm, a marginalised culture, ie Maori, is centralised. Maori ideas, words, religion and myths are all incorporated in the book. The culture present in the book are definitely Maori, i dunno what you mean by cultural context though. mmm, maori culture was NOT well known, and this book was the first to pretty much the first to present NZ/Maori culture to the world . . . thats why it got the booker prize. once again, research is necessary.
and please do not take this wrong, i'm just trying to help. hehe, i might be wrong in several of the things i've said, but its correct to my knowledge.
chop_suey12
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To all those down-trodden retreat from the global students of 2004, here is my attempt to explain the relevance and effectiveness of "The Bone People" in representing the paradigm of 'retreat from the global'. It is an essay fragment from a practice essay I completed two days before the Extension English 1 HSC exam, so at this point my knowledge of the text was at its low-altitude zenith. Our class found it very hard to grapple with the idea of retreat from the global as represented in the text, and at this stage last year I had no idea about the "the Bone People". Although we had not yet studied it, and I had not yet read the dafted thing with its messy chunky inky print, I definitely did not have the concrete understanding I try to convey in this essay fragment until the last minute with this novel. I found 'The Bone Poeple' very alienating at first, and even after we had studied it I had still not finished my first and only reading. Suprisingly though, some of the language is really enjoyable at times in an eccentric kind of way, so don't completely write Hulme off as being unhinged as Kerewin herself!
Fortunately, I was able to recycle the skelton on this in the HSC exam as the question was very similar. In 2003 the question was about how the texts explore resistance to the mainstream, and the one I did to give my pen a ride was about how the texts challenge dominant ways of thinking. As long as you show a really solid understanding of 'The Bone People' and ways of thinking, and inject lots of discussion of techniques into the barren landscape that is a retreat essay, you will succeed in the HSC! Techniques are the best performance enhancing steriods for an extension essay, let me assure you!
On a personal note, after taking this line with 'The Bone People' in the HSC I got 49/50. I am pretty sure I would have lost my 1 mark in the creative section, so I guess this essay fragment resembles something that would have come out of my 25/25 essay. I will leave it up to you guys to judge its relative merit though. I have attached the question too. Hope it helps!
......................................................................................................
How effectively do the texts you have studied reflect and/or challenge the dominant ways of thinking of the times in which they were composed.
You should refer to TWO of your prescribed texts, and other related texts of your own choosing.
The representation of the notion of retreat from the global is inherently linked to a context in which the dominant way of thinking supports the economic and cultural authority of modern Western capitalism and globalisation. The texts The Bone People (Hulme), the poetry of Seamus Heaney, No Logo (Klien), Dirt Music (Winton), however, challenge the imperialist nature of globalisation and its effects on individuals and their communities. In challenging the values of globalisation, the composers of texts resist polarising the local and global. Instead, they offer an exploration of the complex relationship between the local and the global, and in most texts cases the need for a form of co-existence. Significantly, the local within the various texts convey the specifics of an individuals place and culture and are an important tool for making coherent identities in the postmodern and post-colonial world. Furthermore, the relevance of the thematic concerns to a modern audience responding in a context of globalisation and the skill and devices with which they are composed makes the texts highly effective in representing the notion of retreat from the global.
The texts The Bone People and the poetry of Seamus Heaney are both post-colonial, and as such they examine they examine the effects of the colonising process of globalisation on indigenous communities and individuals. Both texts challenge the economic exploitation and cultural dispossession underpinning globalisation by showing its effects on individual connections to traditional communities and cultures and by asserting the importance of belonging and identity in the local. Furthermore, this challenge is given greater credence as Hulme and Heaney both identify themselves as indigenous to their respective countries.
In The Bone People Hulme uses language to effectively challenge the European hegemony of influence that colonisation established and perpetuated. Hulme is sensitive to post-colonial condition in New Zealand where many Maoris have been deprived of their language and culture. While her choice of English language in The Bone People may appear emblematic of the depth and success of the European colonising imperative, the deliberate introduction of Maori words and phrases represents a conscious attempt to challenge imperialisms homogonising linguistic imperative, by actively subverting the authority of English language as one of imperialisms centralising structures. Hulme indicates that in order to be whole again and rehabilitate the local culture, the three must acknowledge continuation of the past in the present. Significantly, within the text, the past is invariably rendered in terms of Maori voices. Kerewin for example, encounters these voices when she discovers the Tahoro Ruku, a greenstone pedant: the voices must have been in my head, they echoed. An explanation of such a phenomenon is later offered by the Kaumatua man: the dead return as voicessometimes we have failed them. In light of this, the penitential rites which are carried out by Joe in the guarding of the mauri and by Kerewin in rebuilding the marae at Moerangi can be read as direct attempts to answer those voices, to redress past failures. It is this contact with a voice of pre-colonial culture that is essentially a healing contact, leading Kerewin and Joe to acknoweledge their responsibilities both to the past and in the present in order to restore Maori culture. However, Hulme does not completely retreat into the past voice; she merely recovers this voice in order to establish a balance between the two cultures. This notion is also present in the central symbol of the double spiral which Kerewin notes, is an old symbol of rebirth, of the outward inward nature of things, and indicates that change and regeneration of local culture and self are contiguous with the experience of the past.
Hulme also skillfully subverts the dominant ways of thinking underpinning globalistion through the use of mythology and characterisation. Before his encounter with the Kaumatua man, Joe is an isolated character. When Chapter 1 Kerewin first overhears him, his language is a rambling drunken anecdote, in a language, English, whose dominance of his own thought is a sign of cultural loss, the limits of having a Pakhea ordered-reality imposed on a Maori. Hulme also seems to link the violence toward Simon and alienation of Joe in terms of his mental qualities by the social conditioning by his menial work, cultural dislocation and sufferings as a child. His anger is a product of his peoples dispossession, and like Kerewin, Joe must come to terms with the value of Maori culture in order to change. Here that Hulme subverts the imposed cultural and racial labels as a result of globalisation. By engaging sympathy for Joe, who can express a genuine love for Simon and be perfectly articulate, the responder is positioned to see how restrictive these stereotypes can be.
The use of mythology in the chapter, The Kaumatau and the broken Man, is a primary means through which the protagonist Joe is able to come to terms with his past and traditions. Essentially, Hulme asserts the importance of retaining these values in a post-colonial world, and from this point in the novel the narrative moves inexorably towards reconciliation. In this chapter the Kaumatua man laments the unhealthy condition of Maori culture in post-colonial New Zealand and yearns for rehabilitation of local culture. The Maoris have ceased to nurture the land..it has despaired of us, maybe we have gone too far and the old alliance has broken down. The contamination of pre-colonial culture by colonisation is also represented in the line: I cant imagine [the spirit] loving the mess the Pakhea have made, can you?. After lamenting loss of culture under globalisation, the Kaumatau man asks Joe to become the protector of one of the sacred canoes as part of a wider Maori mythology, and this is integral to Joes rehabilitation of culture and self. While literary critic C.K Stead argues that the departure from reality through mythology in this part of the book are in the direction of cultural fulfilment rather than historical responsibility, critic M. Williams believes that Hulme is motivated by a profound desire to teach society how it might heal itself and become whole. In light of this, the effectiveness of The Bone People lies in the use of mythology to envisage a communal regeneration of Maori values and tradition in the post-colonial world. It also effectively challenges the dominant way of thinking of the time period in the sense that it calls for a reversal of the hegemony of cultures that colonisation has perpetuated, giving priority to Maori culture and values.
Fortunately, I was able to recycle the skelton on this in the HSC exam as the question was very similar. In 2003 the question was about how the texts explore resistance to the mainstream, and the one I did to give my pen a ride was about how the texts challenge dominant ways of thinking. As long as you show a really solid understanding of 'The Bone People' and ways of thinking, and inject lots of discussion of techniques into the barren landscape that is a retreat essay, you will succeed in the HSC! Techniques are the best performance enhancing steriods for an extension essay, let me assure you!
On a personal note, after taking this line with 'The Bone People' in the HSC I got 49/50. I am pretty sure I would have lost my 1 mark in the creative section, so I guess this essay fragment resembles something that would have come out of my 25/25 essay. I will leave it up to you guys to judge its relative merit though. I have attached the question too. Hope it helps!
......................................................................................................
How effectively do the texts you have studied reflect and/or challenge the dominant ways of thinking of the times in which they were composed.
You should refer to TWO of your prescribed texts, and other related texts of your own choosing.
The representation of the notion of retreat from the global is inherently linked to a context in which the dominant way of thinking supports the economic and cultural authority of modern Western capitalism and globalisation. The texts The Bone People (Hulme), the poetry of Seamus Heaney, No Logo (Klien), Dirt Music (Winton), however, challenge the imperialist nature of globalisation and its effects on individuals and their communities. In challenging the values of globalisation, the composers of texts resist polarising the local and global. Instead, they offer an exploration of the complex relationship between the local and the global, and in most texts cases the need for a form of co-existence. Significantly, the local within the various texts convey the specifics of an individuals place and culture and are an important tool for making coherent identities in the postmodern and post-colonial world. Furthermore, the relevance of the thematic concerns to a modern audience responding in a context of globalisation and the skill and devices with which they are composed makes the texts highly effective in representing the notion of retreat from the global.
The texts The Bone People and the poetry of Seamus Heaney are both post-colonial, and as such they examine they examine the effects of the colonising process of globalisation on indigenous communities and individuals. Both texts challenge the economic exploitation and cultural dispossession underpinning globalisation by showing its effects on individual connections to traditional communities and cultures and by asserting the importance of belonging and identity in the local. Furthermore, this challenge is given greater credence as Hulme and Heaney both identify themselves as indigenous to their respective countries.
In The Bone People Hulme uses language to effectively challenge the European hegemony of influence that colonisation established and perpetuated. Hulme is sensitive to post-colonial condition in New Zealand where many Maoris have been deprived of their language and culture. While her choice of English language in The Bone People may appear emblematic of the depth and success of the European colonising imperative, the deliberate introduction of Maori words and phrases represents a conscious attempt to challenge imperialisms homogonising linguistic imperative, by actively subverting the authority of English language as one of imperialisms centralising structures. Hulme indicates that in order to be whole again and rehabilitate the local culture, the three must acknowledge continuation of the past in the present. Significantly, within the text, the past is invariably rendered in terms of Maori voices. Kerewin for example, encounters these voices when she discovers the Tahoro Ruku, a greenstone pedant: the voices must have been in my head, they echoed. An explanation of such a phenomenon is later offered by the Kaumatua man: the dead return as voicessometimes we have failed them. In light of this, the penitential rites which are carried out by Joe in the guarding of the mauri and by Kerewin in rebuilding the marae at Moerangi can be read as direct attempts to answer those voices, to redress past failures. It is this contact with a voice of pre-colonial culture that is essentially a healing contact, leading Kerewin and Joe to acknoweledge their responsibilities both to the past and in the present in order to restore Maori culture. However, Hulme does not completely retreat into the past voice; she merely recovers this voice in order to establish a balance between the two cultures. This notion is also present in the central symbol of the double spiral which Kerewin notes, is an old symbol of rebirth, of the outward inward nature of things, and indicates that change and regeneration of local culture and self are contiguous with the experience of the past.
Hulme also skillfully subverts the dominant ways of thinking underpinning globalistion through the use of mythology and characterisation. Before his encounter with the Kaumatua man, Joe is an isolated character. When Chapter 1 Kerewin first overhears him, his language is a rambling drunken anecdote, in a language, English, whose dominance of his own thought is a sign of cultural loss, the limits of having a Pakhea ordered-reality imposed on a Maori. Hulme also seems to link the violence toward Simon and alienation of Joe in terms of his mental qualities by the social conditioning by his menial work, cultural dislocation and sufferings as a child. His anger is a product of his peoples dispossession, and like Kerewin, Joe must come to terms with the value of Maori culture in order to change. Here that Hulme subverts the imposed cultural and racial labels as a result of globalisation. By engaging sympathy for Joe, who can express a genuine love for Simon and be perfectly articulate, the responder is positioned to see how restrictive these stereotypes can be.
The use of mythology in the chapter, The Kaumatau and the broken Man, is a primary means through which the protagonist Joe is able to come to terms with his past and traditions. Essentially, Hulme asserts the importance of retaining these values in a post-colonial world, and from this point in the novel the narrative moves inexorably towards reconciliation. In this chapter the Kaumatua man laments the unhealthy condition of Maori culture in post-colonial New Zealand and yearns for rehabilitation of local culture. The Maoris have ceased to nurture the land..it has despaired of us, maybe we have gone too far and the old alliance has broken down. The contamination of pre-colonial culture by colonisation is also represented in the line: I cant imagine [the spirit] loving the mess the Pakhea have made, can you?. After lamenting loss of culture under globalisation, the Kaumatau man asks Joe to become the protector of one of the sacred canoes as part of a wider Maori mythology, and this is integral to Joes rehabilitation of culture and self. While literary critic C.K Stead argues that the departure from reality through mythology in this part of the book are in the direction of cultural fulfilment rather than historical responsibility, critic M. Williams believes that Hulme is motivated by a profound desire to teach society how it might heal itself and become whole. In light of this, the effectiveness of The Bone People lies in the use of mythology to envisage a communal regeneration of Maori values and tradition in the post-colonial world. It also effectively challenges the dominant way of thinking of the time period in the sense that it calls for a reversal of the hegemony of cultures that colonisation has perpetuated, giving priority to Maori culture and values.
Grey Council
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mad! ^_^
sorry, i won't tell you now if it is good or bad, i'm not reading it now. It would defeat the whole purpose of 'study' if i just read and leeched your ideas, putting them into my own essay. But then, if you got 25/25, then you don't really need me to say how good it is.
and congratulations on the mark. 49/50 is way cool. wish i get that..
sorry, i won't tell you now if it is good or bad, i'm not reading it now. It would defeat the whole purpose of 'study' if i just read and leeched your ideas, putting them into my own essay. But then, if you got 25/25, then you don't really need me to say how good it is.
and congratulations on the mark. 49/50 is way cool.
wish i get that..chop_suey12
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It is ok, feel free to read and leech some through a straw...Everyone leeches from everyone else. It is tailored to an essay question though, so it is not like you would be able to "steal" it completely. I just put it up there because I found reading the good scripts out of the standards package to be really useful, as it gives you an idea of how to structure an argument and the way you can approach "ways of thinking".
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o, which years standards packages?
and the only ones that I can find are the borderline essays. band 3/4, band 2/3 etc. And the exemplar reponses (haven't seen any for 3u english) aren't all that many. Just one for each topic.
And as for leeching, i WANT to do it myself, then i'll see how a perosn who got full marks did it. I think i'll learn more that way. hehe hrm, actually, i think i'll read yours now. I'll be doing my essay in like 7 months, so i won't remember whats in yours. ^_^
EDIT:
just finished reading your one. hrm, its a bit different to what our teacher is teaching us (we are going into a fair bit more depth), but good.
btw, howd you write all that in the time limit? I mean, thats just the Bone People section, what about the other 3 texts? whoa, you either write fast (prolly) or you didn't do the other texts in as much depth (unlikely, you got 25). damn, wish i could write that much in an hour. ah well
and the only ones that I can find are the borderline essays. band 3/4, band 2/3 etc. And the exemplar reponses (haven't seen any for 3u english) aren't all that many. Just one for each topic.
And as for leeching, i WANT to do it myself, then i'll see how a perosn who got full marks did it. I think i'll learn more that way. hehe
hrm, actually, i think i'll read yours now. I'll be doing my essay in like 7 months, so i won't remember whats in yours. ^_^EDIT:
just finished reading your one. hrm, its a bit different to what our teacher is teaching us (we are going into a fair bit more depth), but good.
btw, howd you write all that in the time limit? I mean, thats just the Bone People section, what about the other 3 texts? whoa, you either write fast (prolly) or you didn't do the other texts in as much depth (unlikely, you got 25). damn, wish i could write that much in an hour. ah well
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= Jennifer =
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still have to read those comments from chop suey it is just so much info to absorb, meh i will do it tomorrow