• Want to help us with this year's BoS Trials?
    Let us know before 30 June. See this thread for details
  • Looking for HSC notes and resources?
    Check out our Notes & Resources page

remedies assignment (the fusion fallacy) (1 Viewer)

Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
412
Gender
Female
HSC
2003
i got it done a whole hour before the due time - applause....

wasn't my best work, but it's finished... hope to never hear the words fusion or fallacy again

now onto trade practices... woot!! iwr u're doing that aren't u?
i've nearly finished transcribing the lectures - do u want me to send them through once they're done?
 

iwannarock

Active Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Messages
1,256
Gender
Male
HSC
2003
scarecrow_of_oz said:
now onto trade practices... woot!! iwr u're doing that aren't u?
i've nearly finished transcribing the lectures - do u want me to send them through once they're done?
oh crap trade prac.

i still don't have the textbook for it.

i don't know which question to choose.

the second one looks way easier to structure, but i cant find anything about authorisation cases. not that i've looked.........but thats just what i heard from a friend.
 
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
412
Gender
Female
HSC
2003
i'd just go with cp - it's easier, we've done stuff on it. barely started this assignmnet and already feeling so over it. i'd better get it done soon tho - got a forecasting midsemester to study for that's on the same day :(
 

iwannarock

Active Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Messages
1,256
Gender
Male
HSC
2003
scarecrow_of_oz said:
i'd just go with cp - it's easier, we've done stuff on it. barely started this assignmnet and already feeling so over it. i'd better get it done soon tho - got a forecasting midsemester to study for that's on the same day :(
i think i will.

i was in the tute today and vij was going through the topics........then authorisation came up and it got my attention.

i was thinking 'but.........ah.........its week 8...............why is this just being mentioned now and the assignment is due monday'

it made me feel paranoid that maybe it came up ages ago and i had just forgotten.

and plus she's written articles about it. one she was writing to be handed in to an editor on monday. it made me scared to try that question.
 

iwannarock

Active Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Messages
1,256
Gender
Male
HSC
2003
hey i still don't own the textbook.

is it really necessary for this question?

i think im lost.

is there a lecture week or reading that i should listen to or read that will make me think 'ah yes'.

this is all greek to me.
 
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
412
Gender
Female
HSC
2003
most of the text isn't that useful (with regards to the cases etc - i haven't gone into hornsby et al or anything didn't want to stray from the point).

the articles by graeme are quite useful however... i mainly used him for the ideas behind s 52 (i.e. consumer protection foundations -- use in practice becomes more of a trade rival against trade rival thing, problems with contract law etc...) you should be able to get that though if you find a nice s 52 article on the net.

the main problem i'd see with not having the text is that you don't have the article: T Bougoignie, "Characteristics of Consumer Law" (1992) 14 Journal of Consumer Law 293-315. I haven't used him yet but he looks at the consummariat (collective dimension of consumer interests) which i thought was relevant. when i do my section on him i'll let u know if i come up with anything, but the guy's quite hard to translate. look at lecture two notes for graeme's take.

Insert from lecture on Bougoignie (transcription)(/edit - correct spelling is Bourgoignie so be careful): Contract law lines up very easily with the idea of the sovereignty of the consumer. So if I’m going to question the efficacy of contract law it seems I also have to give u a basis upon which u can question the idea of the sovereignty of the consumer and that’s why we read Bougoignie. So he says that the sovereignty of the consumer is a simply proposition that the dynamics of the economy are… that the consumer is the dynamic force behind the economy – that collectively consumers make their wants and needs known, producers meet those wants and needs and the degree to which they successfully meet them is the degree to which they are successful in the marketplace. So consumers are the motivator for the production of goods. And in our system that has a nice democratic resonance – consumers are the people so we’re responding to the dominant wishes of the people., woot. Bougoignie simply turns that around. P.12 a third the way down the page consumer related consequences is where he sets out his idea second sentence, forget the word norm. so he’s talking about a system of mass consumption based on the production and promotion of a growing number of goods and activities. So he says that’s the dynamic force in our economy – development of a system of mass consumption based on the production and promotion of a growing number of goods and activities....instead of that (the consumer operating on the producer and the producer producing goods) he simply turns that around and says that what we have is the producer, the production, the distribution, the consumption – the consumer comes last. He’s not critical of this – that’s just it he says that’s what’s happening – consumers were following a social norm and the norm is consumption (I think social norm only means social role), that role is valuable – the role is to consume what’s being produced. And I might be overly simplistic but I think what he then says is because that role of consumers consuming is so important for the economy and society generally the social norm is so important it needs to be supported. So what’s the role of the legal system? Consumer protection legislation should then support that social norm of consumption. You can see why I’d like that because I’ve spent a lot of time describing myself as a consumer advocate it gives me a rationale – its undertheorised and in the gap really have come in these ideas from contract that consumer protection should be intergrative but beware of intervention and isn’t it a pity it’s paternalistic. Boiswanie says no look at how society operates – we’ve got a mass production society, that’s what we base our economy on, consumers have an important role in that therefore the legal system should support them in that role – so get rid of all that stuff about paternalism because whether it’s paternalistic or not who cares, because our ideal is no longer voluntaristic contractual, our role is supporting them in this important social function, and thus you can put consumer protection back into consumer protection. He also says that individuals are both collective and individualistic, and that does seem obvious at first but it does introduce a new element into our thinking we’re used to thinking of law cases between two people we focus on the individual aspect of the parties. Consumer protection – since the consumer is involved in this great massive social function there’s a collective element about that are I think that’s all he means, that it’s individualistic and collective. And it’s objective subjective – it’s objective because we can look at a mass movement, it’s subjective because we can look at individuals. With respect to some of the students it’s all getting a bit theoretical here, a bit European, for common law lawyers who like things practical. So he talks about the consommariat there’s an aspect in which consumers come together as a group but also an aspect to which they’re individuals so there’s a subjective element about that. Why does that matter – one reason is we can’t winge too much about why do consumers need all this protection why don’t they just organize themselves and get on with it? Bring a court action themselves. The collective element. The problem with collectively is the subjective – while it is meaningful to talk about them as a group, talk of consumers as a group the trouble is we’re all consumers, we’re all consumers but we’re all consumers with a strong subjective element we’re all consumers in our individual transactions. So it’s very difficult to build up any group solidarity among consumers.

if you need page numbers etc just let us know and i'll post them... B's quite complex, i don't know how much i'll use him but when i work it out i'll let u know. don't stress honey - that's all i plan to use from the text - the rest can be gotton from articles.
 
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
412
Gender
Female
HSC
2003
these articles should help:

-->Natalie O’Connor, ‘Consumer Protection Under the Trade Practices Act: A Time For Change’ (1998) 17(1) University of Tasmania Law Review 48, 54, 61 - looks a bit at s 52 and problems - wouldn't read it all most of it's not useful but there are some good bits in there on how businesses bring more actions than consumers etc - can speculate why that's a problem

--> Peter Cashman 'Consumers and Class Actions' (2001) 5 UWSLR 9 - looks at advantages and disadvantages of class actions and their relationship with consumer protection

--> Richard Hur 'Litigation and the Consumer Interest; the Class Action and Beyond' (1982) 2(2) Legal Studies 135 - is very pro-class action, written from an international perspective. very wordy - again wouldn't read it all, would just pick out the bits that support your argument

alot of its going to be free form - write down and structure ur ideas, then just use bits from articles to support what you're saying. these articles can be found by putting them through journal finder.
 

iwannarock

Active Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Messages
1,256
Gender
Male
HSC
2003
well 2648 words.

im done.

that was by far the quickest essay i've ever written. i dunno if thats a good thing or a bad thing.

i structured it as

intro-> waffle waffle waffle

consumers ->talked about definition......problems with ambiguity in TPA.....talked about Bourgblahblah and his idea of the collective consumer etc which leads to

class actions -> definition, advantages disadvantes etc.

class actions in relation to s 52 -> babbled on about s 52 first....definition...why it was implemented.......what its become....corporation v corporation.......talked about criticisms......how class actions can counteract these criticisms...and also how class actions are ineffective.....talked about taco a bit too. taco was the only case i used. doh.

conclusion-> waffle waffle waffle

thank you so so so so much for your help.

i would have been so lost without it.

i really am grateful.

:wave:

and now i really am sleepy and must get to bed.
 
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
412
Gender
Female
HSC
2003
that's ok sweetie, anytime. i've had plenty of people over the years pull my ass out out of the fire (although most of these people are my friend belle : )

2600 - nice one - much better than me, i was scraping 2300. did u double space it? if so how many pages did u do??

so glad it's over... until the exam
 

iwannarock

Active Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Messages
1,256
Gender
Male
HSC
2003
scarecrow_of_oz said:
that's ok sweetie, anytime. i've had plenty of people over the years pull my ass out out of the fire (although most of these people are my friend belle : )

2600 - nice one - much better than me, i was scraping 2300. did u double space it? if so how many pages did u do??

so glad it's over... until the exam
double spaced mine was just under 10 pages with bib.

but i had some pretty big indented size 10 font quotes. like one was seriously 50 words.

its because i was trying to paraphrase some stuff bourgoignie was saying. then that wasted too much space so i was just like fuck it a 50 word quote explaining his point is better than babbling about what hes trying to say for even longer.

but somehow yeah this managed to be shorter in pages than my remedies one but more in words.:confused:
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top