Racist pub bans Arabs, Islanders (1 Viewer)

[Captain Gh3y]

Absolutely.

I don't let any niggers in my house. It's nothing personal, I've found them to be lovely people when interacting with them in public. But they're not coming in here.

What are you going to do about it?

 

[jimmayyy]

so if a Leb came to my house, and i refused him entry on the fact he was lebanese, i should be up before the anti discrimination tribunal?

bitch please, this is being blown completely out of proportion by (if i can quote a post on the first page) "touchy feely PC faggots"

the guy has every right to instruct his security to stop trouble makers from coming in. if those trouble makers are (and we all know it to be true) arabs and islanders, why not?

 

[bshoc]

Do private property rights extend as far as racial discrimination?

No, racial discrimination doesn't enter into it, private property is private property, one can elect to not let anyone in, for whatever reason or lack of thereof.

 

[ur_inner_child]

I'm not sure about the legal side of it, but you could say a supermarket can be private property by the owner, and thus choose to ban middle eastern people in?

If it's a place of business, isn't it a different matter altogether?

 

[_dhj_]

I don't think it's simply a case of 'private property'. If this was the policy of a department store or supermarket I'm sure the public would be outraged (although they could always argue that certain racial profiles are more prone to shoplifting). It's a different story for premises like pubs and clubs though, where the general public's expectation is that they are allowed to turn away 'undesirables' from their premises. Racial profiling in businesses is more widespread than most of us believe. For example, taxi drivers are taught first and foremost to not pick up indigenous passengers in certain suburbs.

 

[lengy]

I don't get it. Scruffy Murphy's is incredibly shit anyways. The bouncers are doing them a favour.

 

[Sparcod]

the title of this thread offends me

Sorry about the offence.
That was the front page title of today's Daily Telegraph.

 

[YankeeChica]

He was doing it for public safety. Its not ideal but it shows the reality of life and how ordinary people in Sydney are sick and tired of these violent people.

 

[HotShot]

For example, taxi drivers are taught first and foremost to not pick up indigenous passengers in certain suburbs.

They are not 'taught' they are advised not to. They still can if they want. And many do.

Quite simply its stupid - it shows a degradation of society in Australia if you ban people by race - its a step backwards.

You should allow everyone in and those that are 'rowdy' or cause trouble can be banned from the bar. After they have committed a crime. Judging someone beforehand however it maybe judged racial, religion etc is wrong and not acceptable.

Now just imagine a local coles supermarket - bans all Aussies!.

 

[ur_inner_child]

He was doing it for public safety. Its not ideal but it shows the reality of life and how ordinary people in Sydney are sick and tired of these violent people.

Middle eastern people are "ordinary people" too.

I don't see the trouble of dealing with people in a case by case scenario. In a general sense, sure, I'll admit that they don't have a great reputation. But a middle eastern man or woman, fairly westernised and properly dressed would probably pose no threat?

Are we as Australians giving mixed messages if we want migrants and people of different backgrounds to accept and daresay adopt and embrace the Australian culture, but then segregate and generalise them all the same?

Now that I've thought about it a little more, if I were in their shoes, I'd probably cause a good uproar in legal battles too. I don't care if anyone thinks its about private property or rights. The problem is, the reason was unashamedly "race". If it was a less blatant, it might've been a different matter (much in the same way as they turn away ugly people - they don't outright say "you're too ugly").

 

[_dhj_]

They are not 'taught' they are advised not to. They still can if they want. And many do.

Quite simply its stupid - it shows a degradation of society in Australia if you ban people by race - its a step backwards.

You should allow everyone in and those that are 'rowdy' or cause trouble can be banned from the bar. After they have committed a crime. Judging someone beforehand however it maybe judged racial, religion etc is wrong and not acceptable.

Now just imagine a local coles supermarket - bans all Aussies!.

I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong. But from a business point of view, there comes a certain point where a discriminatory policy may be needed to ensure safety for its staff and patrons. Of course, the policies aren't ideal, but they aren't just plucked out of the air because someone 'doesn't like the look' of a particular ethnic group. They are adopted due to the business' experiences and the realities of our society. Are certain groups inherently more likely to be threats to personal safety because of their genetic characteristics? I don't think that's the case, but the social-economic or cultural influences on those groups and the social attitudes towards them have engendered discrepancies.

 

[Captain Gh3y]

Now just imagine a local coles supermarket - bans all Aussies!.

So what?

They'd just go broke pretty much straight away and close. I don't see a problem with it.

 

[bshoc]

But there's also federal anti-discrimination legislation and Johnny Howard and his 'troops' who are continually on guard against the revolutionary armies of politicall correctness would never have any of that touchy feely PC stuff, right?

And despite that we have had Liberal state governments in power in NSW since 1977, but none of them have attempted to repeal it.

It's all the fault of the invisible omniscient Political correctness empire

Yes, because most people can see why its a good idea to ban lebs and islanders from pubs, if you can't you either don't live in reality, never go out, or just a plain leftist moron, I'd warrant the third one myself.

You can't let utopian values like yours get in the way of what is plain practicality. Banning lebanese people makes it better for everyone else in the pub.

I'm afraid it does. Because the pub is offering a service and products.

And ... private property is private property, theres a difference between disciminating between selling products, and selecting who may and who may not enter a certain private property.

That's fine, because your house isn't a business. If you wanted to rent a room out to someone though, or set up some electronics business in it, and you refused somebody entry because they are a 'nigger' you would be in trouble though.

No you wouldn't, because nobody is stupid enough to go around policing something like that, what about all those "looking for female housemate" adverts etc.

Reality is truly a world you do not inhabit.

 

[KFunk]

Yes, because most people can see why its a good idea to ban lebs and islanders from pubs, if you can't you either don't live in reality, never go out, or just a plain leftist moron, I'd warrant the third one myself.

You can't let utopian values like yours get in the way of what is plain practicality. Banning lebanese people makes it better for everyone else in the pub.

Your notion of practicality is a very one-sided one. Are such values practical for lebanese individuals? I would argue that they aren't. In fact, I don't think anyone really gains much from being the target of discrimination.

Personally I see why it is reasonable to ban a known ruffian from a pub, but to prevent someone from coming in simply because they look like the last ruffian to make it through the door and start up trouble is complete social injustice. It doesn't seem like such a big deal when we're just talking about banning people from entry to a pub but suppose we tolerate this kind of racism... you can end up with Apartheid. You could have lebanese individuals taken in and questioned by the police simply 'because they looked like they knew gang members'.

I think it's all to easy to sit back and tolerate this kind of BS when you're not suffering from the particular policy of discrimination, and even more so when it affords you some 'peace with your pint'. I'll take my utopia over your dystopia any day of the week.

 

[HotShot]

They'd just go broke pretty much straight away and close. I don't see a problem with it.

Dream on mate.. Obviously you have been living in some fantasy world - look at the all asian shops - how many 'aussie' customers do you think they get? They wouldnt create a business if they knew it would go broke.

the Point I meant is not on profit or economic gains but rather how would one feel being left out? A business/enterprise or organisation has no right to discriminate against its customers- except through its products. Like Porn only allowed for Adults etc.

Such acts of discrimination by business as in that pub only add to society's problems - by creating more tensions. Its a pub for gods sakes - all pubs are have some correlation with brawls.. violence in general. You only need to look at David Hookes or Ricky Ponting .. even Symonds :rofl:

 

[YankeeChica]

Pub owner: Why I banned Arabs
By Shoba Rao

May 04, 2007 12:00

Article from: Font size: + -
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THE owner of Scruffy Murphy's pub introduced his no Arabs or Islanders policy to "maintain a safe environment" for his staff and patrons, he told a tribunal today.

Malcolm McGuinness said he introduced the race ban because he was under pressure from police over increasing crime around the area that had been linked to the hotel.

Police issued the pub with a section 104 complaint to try to get the hotel to comply with its licence conditions, citing gang-related crime around the pub involving Pacific Islanders and others of Middle Eastern appearance.

http://www.news.com.au/sundaytelegraph/story/0,,21670793-5001021,00.html?from=public_rss

He was only complying with police orders to make his pub a safer place and I think he deserve support and praise not these baseless accusation of racism.
I don't have a problem with that, especially if its done for the good of the society

 

[sam04u]

People like those are the scum of society. They should implement a dress-code, if they want any sort of prevention of sorts. (I'm saying it from a security perspective.) Racism should not be tolerated in Australia.

 

[Bendent]

Middle eastern people are "ordinary people" too.

I don't see the trouble of dealing with people in a case by case scenario. In a general sense, sure, I'll admit that they don't have a great reputation. But a middle eastern man or woman, fairly westernised and properly dressed would probably pose no threat?

Are we as Australians giving mixed messages if we want migrants and people of different backgrounds to accept and daresay adopt and embrace the Australian culture, but then segregate and generalise them all the same?

Now that I've thought about it a little more, if I were in their shoes, I'd probably cause a good uproar in legal battles too. I don't care if anyone thinks its about private property or rights. The problem is, the reason was unashamedly "race". If it was a less blatant, it might've been a different matter (much in the same way as they turn away ugly people - they don't outright say "you're too ugly").

turn away ugly people?

lol do people do that?

 

[MaNiElla]

turn away ugly people?

lol do people do that?

you have no idea, on how cruel people get

 

[HotShot]

http://www.news.com.au/sundaytelegraph/story/0,,21670793-5001021,00.html?from=public_rss

He was only complying with police orders to make his pub a safer place and I think he deserve support and praise not these baseless accusation of racism.
I don't have a problem with that, especially if its done for the good of the society

Pub owner: Why I banned Arabs

By Shoba Rao

May 04, 2007 12:00
Article from: The Daily Telegraph

Font size: + -

Send this article: Print Email

THE owner of Scruffy Murphy's pub introduced his no Arabs or Islanders policy to "maintain a safe environment" for his staff and patrons, he told a tribunal today.

Malcolm McGuinness said he introduced the race ban because he was under pressure from police over increasing crime around the area that had been linked to the hotel.

Police issued the pub with a section 104 complaint to try to get the hotel to comply with its licence conditions, citing gang-related crime around the pub involving Pacific Islanders and others of Middle Eastern appearance.

But Mr McGuinness told the Equal Opportunity Division of the Administrative Decisions Tribunal the policy, introduced in November, 2005, was at his own will without any request from the police.

He said: "The police let me decide what policy I implement. That was up to me.

"They don't tell me how to run the hotel."

He said NSW licencing police had written him a letter where they made certain requests for his hotel to enforce stricter security conditions on weekends.

But he decided to introduce his race policy on a seven-day basis, even though none of the police requests had alluded to patrons' racial backgrounds.

He said he told hotel security staff the policy was to be implemented with discretion.

"If you know these people or you have friends that are these people that is up to you (to let them in)," he told staff.

Scruffy Murphys is being sued for unlawful racial discrimination by Pacific Islander Benji Tupou and New Zealander Marcellus Cook after they were refused entry to the hotel.

Lawyers for Scruffy Murphy's have already conceded that in Mr Cook's case the hotel breached the Anti-discrimination Act after he was refused entry based on the pub's policy of refusing entry to Islanders and people of Middle Eastern appearance.

The tribunal also heard from a key witness who was with Mr Tupou when he was barred from the pub.

Alex Farani told the court he was "just shocked and disgusted" when they were turned away on the night of March 24, 2005.

Mr Farani, 31, from Alexandria, said he and Mr Tupou went to Scruffy Murphy's after 11pm, where they were approached by a security guard after waiting in a queue for a few minutes.

Mr Farani said the secuity guard said: "Sorry guys, there's no Islanders."

Under cross examination Mr Farani said he thought the guard was joking until he repeated it for a second time.

He said: "Me and my friend looked at each other and realised it was serious.

"I was shocked. We just turned and walked away from the hotel."

The hearing continues.

Dude fucken hell quote the whole articles and no the part that suites you!.