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Police brutality (1 Viewer)

Götterfunken

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Queensland police have been accused of using excessive force in a brawl outside a Brisbane nightclub yesterday.

Twenty-seven men and women were arrested during the disturbance outside the Underground Nightclub in Edward St just after 4:00am.

It started with a fight between two people and developed into a brawl within minutes.

Some club patrons say police were using capsicum spray on innocent bystanders.

"Some people were just trying to run past and just got caught up in it and just got dragged in and sprayed and thrown into the watch tower," said one witness.

"They were bashing anyone with the bats, they even grabbed this other guy that was waiting for a taxi they sprayed him and then they started bashing him and then they arrested him."

Police Superintendent Tonya Carew says her officers acted appropriately.

"I tell my staff to use capsicum spray," she said.

"Far too often my officers are injured because they are trying to communicate with people who are drunk and at 3:00am in the morning they are not able to be reasoned with."

Superintendent Carew says this type of behaviour will not be tolerated.

"It was a very volatile incident and police were confronted with a large crowd of angry people and if people continue to behave in this manner then they will be locked up," she said.

Twenty-five people face charges including assault and obstructing police, while two others have been issued with notices to appear in court.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200510/s1488723.htm

So the question is this--do the police go too far? Are they too aggressive in maintaining the ‘peace’? Or are their actions, which are reported upon here, and witnessed, in similar situations, by many BoS members I'm sure, consistent with using justifiable and appropriate force?
 

rink

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''Some club patrons say police were using capsicum spray on innocent bystanders.''

thats the part im worried about
 

Götterfunken

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That's also the part I'm worried about. Police in these situations tend to view everyone and anyone as a suspect; they don't differentiate between the people that are acting untowardly, and 'innocent bystanders'.
 

loquasagacious

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If indeed the police were rounding up, clubbing and capsicuming random bystanders then they certainly were crossing the line.
 

santaslayer

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Police are there to enforce the law, not break it.

(Generally) Police aren't given overly excessive powers IMO, but SOME tend to abuse it.
 

jay2000

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Hmmm...i agree with Anti-Mathmite..

Even if the allegations from the bystanders are true, doesn't really mean much, the words of a bunch of drunks vs police...
What's gonna happen to the cops even if the judge doesn't believe the courts?...probably gonna get suspended with pay whilst the matter is investigated :s
 
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leetom

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The maintenance of social order is paramount. If innocent bystanders need to be batoned and capsicum sprayed out of the way in order to reach the nucleus of the brawl, then so be it.
 

biggles04

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Anti-Mathmite said:
The police walked up to an innocent by-stander and sprayed them in the face with pepper spray?

It wouldn't happen, not because the police are innocent or honest, but because it doesn't seem to follow human logic/instinct.

As these accusations come from those unruly people themselves, i don't see how anyone could believe them.
Hear...fucking...hear.
 

Götterfunken

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leetom said:
The maintenance of social order is paramount. If innocent bystanders need to be batoned and capsicum sprayed out of the way in order to reach the nucleus of the brawl, then so be it.
If you where an innocent bystander, and where assaulted in such a manner, would you be so quick to defend their actions? I dare say you wouldn't.
 

leetom

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Depends on what you define on innocent bystander. If there was a brawl on the other side of the street and I was just out for an evening walk, and all of a sudden a wild policeman came upon for no valid reason and started beating me, I would be unhappy. But I'm sure that that isn't the case, and the people claiming to be 'innocent bystanders' in Queensland were infact obstructing police entry into the fray, and so their wellbeing is expendable.
 

loquasagacious

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Leetom has always been happy to lie down and take one for the state....
 

Götterfunken

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leetom said:
Depends on what you define on innocent bystander. If there was a brawl on the other side of the street and I was just out for an evening walk, and all of a sudden a wild policeman came upon for no valid reason and started beating me, I would be unhappy. But I'm sure that that isn't the case, and the people claiming to be 'innocent bystanders' in Queensland were infact obstructing police entry into the fray, and so their wellbeing is expendable.
The fact is you can't say that for sure; the definition if innocent bystander, as I see it, is someone whilst being in the same vicinity of a crime, is not committing, or participating, in the crime itself.

An example is while walking to your local public library to borrow a copy of Plato's 'The Republic' you witness a man hit an annoyingly right-wing child. While witnessing the crime, you remain an 'innocent bystander'. In getting to the crime the policeman use the same footpath you are on. Because you are also on the footpath, and thus it could be construed you are obstructing police entry, the policeman capsicum sprays you, and then bludgeons you out of the way.

Surely you would feel you have been treated untowardly and the police man's actions where impulsive, and his excessive violence towards you was unwarranted. He had only needed to ask you to move—but perhaps at the moment you weren’t able to, and because he was in a rush to get to the crime, he viewed your problem as obstruction of his justice fulfilment—or find another rout.

[comment]no prizes for guessing who the right-wing child is! Hi2u who ever is quoting me! :eek:[/comment]
 

Götterfunken

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Lozacious said:
If you were obstructing the police deliberately then you deserve to be bludgeoned or sprayed.
Who said deliberately? I think the problem is that you [comment]are an annoyingly quasi-fascist dolt[/comment] haven't been (I'm assuming), or witnessed first hand, in a similar situation, and hence find it easy to promulgate your views.
 

gerhard

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maybe ive got a completely different perception of human nature than you guys

If you are a policeman/woman in a situation like this, you are going to be scared, you are going to have a physiological response to the danger present, you are going to fear for your safety and so you may in the heat of the moment do something unnecessary/irrational/stupid. More training could help avoid this. I think its pretty logical to see how police brutality would occur (if it occurs).
 

leetom

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Götterfunken said:
The fact is you can't say that for sure; the definition if innocent bystander, as I see it, is someone whilst being in the same vicinity of a crime, is not committing, or participating, in the crime itself.

An example is while walking to your local public library to borrow a copy of Plato's 'The Republic' you witness a man hit an annoyingly right-wing child. While witnessing the crime, you remain an 'innocent bystander'. In getting to the crime the policeman use the same footpath you are on. Because you are also on the footpath, and thus it could be construed you are obstructing police entry, the policeman capsicum sprays you, and then bludgeons you out of the way.

Surely you would feel you have been treated untowardly and the police man's actions where impulsive, and his excessive violence towards you was unwarranted. He had only needed to ask you to move—but perhaps at the moment you weren’t able to, and because he was in a rush to get to the crime, he viewed your problem as obstruction of his justice fulfilment—or find another rout.
But that is an entirely different scenario. People do not mass around a fight in the public arena, at least not during the working hours of the day. Also, in that scenario the policeman himself has just witnessed the assault take place and can promptly proceed to restore public order, in which I, as one person, am not preventing him from doing so. Whereas in the Queensland theatre the policeman arrives to find dozens of people milled about two or more individuals disrupting social harmony, and so in order to restore the social harmony as well as prevent serious injury to those involved in the fray, the policeman is entitled to utilise his baton in order to gain acess to the core of the fight.

Such a police reputation also sets a precedent. Now when the police arrive to quel violence, the mob, or those who consider themselves to be justly innocent, will quickly take flight, exposing those involved in the fighting and granting police immediate access to the unruly ones. Also, batons and capsicum spray do not inflict heavy injuries.

On another note, police are very friendly. Often caught without a train ticket and unlucky enough to have police manning the station exits, I just confess my situation "I'm sorry sir, I don't have a ticket, I'm just coming to the library to study". I think it's the 'sir' and my honed, apologetic accent. It really surprises them, after having to deal with ungrateful western suburbs shits all day, and causes them to take pity on me. To what extent the effect of my Labor membership card has, I'm not certain.
 

frog12986

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Maybe they should send Pat O'Shane up there to quell the police brutality..

..this would simultaneously solve many of the associated problems by reducing the capacity of officers to undertake duties conferred upon them by noneother than the state..whilst at the same time removing her from NSW ..kill two birds with one stone I say .. :rolleyes: ..
 

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