Most over rated movie (1 Viewer)

[icecreamdisco]

He hardly "shamelessly ripped" from Short Cuts. They are two films similar in style and structure. That's all. I imagine P.T. Anderson watched Short Cuts and thought 'hrmm, nice style. I can take what Altman's done and do it better', which he did. Short Cuts is so shallow, and has no emotional core. To add to that, its characters were neither interesting nor engaging. Anderson used Altman's style, weaved in far more unique characters, adding an emotional strength. Simply because the technical side of Anderson's film is slightly derivative doesn't mean he has "shamelessly ripped" from another film. He's taken a good concept and strengthened it.

I believe Altman was simply saying that coincidences happen and that peoples lives are interconnected in Short Cuts, which all came from the style in which he filmed it (which is the same style Anderson has used in Magnolia). However, I feel Anderson has far more to add. He seems to question the nature of control. Do we live a scripted existence, or are our lives a series of coincidences. He sets the film up with the narrator claiming that live and death all come down to random acts of coincidence, and ends the film with the suggestion that perhaps there's more to life than coincidence - the frogs rain from the sky, an event that affects every character in the film, showing the audience that these lives have been altered in a way out of their control. I find Magnolia to be a film that opens up so many doors, and leaves them open. It doesn't aim to provide answers, but merely challenge its audience - the way many recent films from Mike Nichols present themselves.

I don't understand why you think the frogs are so silly. The entire film exists in such a subtley surreal world, to which the raining frogs seem to be part. The film never, ever pretended to be fully realistic, it never intended to be an epic, and I fail to see how it can be labelled pretentious. It wasn't aimed to be a biblical allusion either. You need to read up on the film a little more.

c'mon, both films end with a natural phenomenon (earthquakes and frog rains) as a deus ex machina; a way to bring all the characters together. only earthquakes actually do happen in LA, whereas frog rains don't. i don't buy that the film's supposed to be surreal; it's slickly shot, but PTA aims for realism for the most part, which just makes the climax jarring. for a film that sets up characters and intends on making them as human and believable as possible, i feel cheated that the only way they can all be affected for the better is by a goddamn frog rain. and it is a biblical allusion, to exodus 8.2 -

"Let My people go, that they may serve Me. But if you refuse to let them go, behold, I will smite your whole territory with frogs. And the Nile will swarm with frogs, which will come up and go into your house"

the number 8 and 2 even reappear throughout the film; there's a list on IMDb's trivia page of all the occurances.

i disagree that short cuts has no emotional core; while i think magnolia is more affecting, it's also more manipulative, whereas altman takes his distance to observes the characters and what makes them tick.

Also, you had a problem with me labelling the film "brilliant", yet you have no problem with stating that the film is "not as profound as people give it credit for" and "overrated"? You can't throw away one person's comment and make equally as 'objective' replies.

huh? i had a problem with you saying that i took it at face value when the only defense you had was that "it's brilliant, no two ways about it". you've taken time to defend it insightfully in your last post, and that's good. end of story.

 

[Atticus.]

i used to think mystic river was the most over rated movie ever
then i got up this morning and watched the grudge

kill me

 

[Benny_]

Agree with Mystic River, don't agree with The Grudge. There hasn't been a really highly rated horror movie since Misery.

 

[nwatts]

PTA aims for realism for the most part, which just makes the climax jarring

I don't believe he does, at all. I had the same discussion with someone who tried to convince me American Beauty was a better film, and whose single argument was the 'unrealistic' nature of the entire Magnolia film.

A lot of PTA's dialogue is highly poetic and very unrealistic. Take the scene with Quiz Kid Donnie Smith and the old slimy gay bloke in the pub. It's a lyrical conversation, that in no way reflects how normal people talk. This particular conversation borrows from a variety of poems too, further pushing the fact that this is a movie, not real life. There are stacks of other examples that show how Magnolia is a film that exists in a surreal world, not your normal American city.

In comparison to short cuts again, I found the frog rain to be so much richer in interpretation value than the earthquake. I felt PTA had set up his film in a slightly skewed nature to make this event seem as normal as an earthquake, so for me it wasn't jarring, but it wasn't expected. After watching Magnolia, the frog rain impacts on your interpretation of the concepts behind the film, and has far more value than simply a means to connect the characters together. You can look into the biblical value, the impact it has on the concept of free will and coincidence, etc. etc. Where as Short Cuts' earthquake was simply an earthquake.

Strait from IMDB - Paul Thomas Anderson has said that he was unaware that the story of frogs falling from the sky is in the Bible (he took it from Charles Fort's writing) when he wrote the screenplay. The Bible story of the plague of frogs was brought to his attention by Henry Gibson prior to filming. After he became aware of the story, Anderson worked references to Exodus 8:2 into the movie.

So you're kind of wrong on that case. The biblical links are pure coincidence.

 

[scoby_2000]

..........anchorman

 

[shortygb]

..........anchorman

definatly...

 

[icecreamdisco]

I don't believe he does, at all. I had the same discussion with someone who tried to convince me American Beauty was a better film, and whose single argument was the 'unrealistic' nature of the entire Magnolia film.

A lot of PTA's dialogue is highly poetic and very unrealistic. Take the scene with Quiz Kid Donnie Smith and the old slimy gay bloke in the pub. It's a lyrical conversation, that in no way reflects how normal people talk. This particular conversation borrows from a variety of poems too, further pushing the fact that this is a movie, not real life. There are stacks of other examples that show how Magnolia is a film that exists in a surreal world, not your normal American city.

In comparison to short cuts again, I found the frog rain to be so much richer in interpretation value than the earthquake. I felt PTA had set up his film in a slightly skewed nature to make this event seem as normal as an earthquake, so for me it wasn't jarring, but it wasn't expected. After watching Magnolia, the frog rain impacts on your interpretation of the concepts behind the film, and has far more value than simply a means to connect the characters together. You can look into the biblical value, the impact it has on the concept of free will and coincidence, etc. etc. Where as Short Cuts' earthquake was simply an earthquake.

i'm kinda drawing a blank here, so i'll take the easy way out and say the climax is dumb and doesn't work for me. the frogs are an arbitary image, even with the knowledge that they're a biblical allusion. it's true that the earthquake in short cuts isn't as remarkable as magnolia's deus ex machina (christ i love that term), but it feels more organic and truer to the nature of the rest of the film.

on the other hand...

So you're kind of wrong on that case. The biblical links are pure coincidence.

After he became aware of the story, Anderson worked references to Exodus 8:2 into the movie.

they were coincidence when he wrote the screenplay, but when he realised them he deliberately drew attention to them into the film, as an obvious ploy to affect the audience's interpretation of the ending.

 

[Enoch]

oh hotel rwanda ...very emotional

 

[Benny_]

Oh oh oh.. I have a few more..

Hero
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon
House of Flying Daggers

...and after watching the Hannibal Lector trilogy again this morning, Silence of the Lambs.

 

[artheterosexual]

american beauty

 

[go_swans]

american beauty

i thought american beauty was heaps good...

 

[Monkey Butler]

Oh oh oh.. I have a few more..

Hero
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon
House of Flying Daggers

...and after watching the Hannibal Lector trilogy again this morning, Silence of the Lambs.

Although I haven't seen House of Flying Daggers, fuck you.

 

[Benny_]

Care to explain to my what you found to be so wonderful about Hero/CTHD, aside from the visuals?

 

[bazookajoe]

American Beauty was the best film of the late 90s.

 

[duckofdoom]

oh yes the grudge was mega shit. so is star wars.
and the village!

I must agree. The Village was supoosed to be the stuff nightmares are made of. uh uh. lame crazy amish type people with weird costumes and a crappy ending.

 

[duckofdoom]

call me dumb, but war of the worlds isn't released until the 29th of june...how can you already rate it without seeing it?

War of the worlds was a movie from the 70s or around that time. The Tom Cruise one is a remake.

 

[Benny_]

You can't rate a remake you haven't seen based on how much you enjoyed the original. They're usually quite different. I imagine people who had an opinion about it before seeing it were either making assumptions about it based on what they'd seen or had a leaked copy that might have been circulating around the net.

 

[nwatts]

Care to explain to my what you found to be so wonderful about Hero/CTHD, aside from the visuals?

I loved Hero, purely for its visuals. And i'm not going to hesitate in claiming it's a fantastic film. It sets out to be a visual masterpiece, which it does brilliantly. The plot and characters are merely vehicles for the next beautiful image or bazzling fight scene. I could almost watch the film without subtitles, and still enjoy it immensely.

Christopher Doyle, Australian cinematographer, is one of the most talented men behind a camera. Ever. His name and ability are what Hero rests on.

House of Flying Daggers failed (to me) because it tried to be both a visual masterpiece and a compelling narrative. Because such emphasis was placed on the characters and their plight, we notice the sub-par acting and the cliched plotline. At the same time, it features the same visual brilliance found in Hero, but tries (and fails) to envelope it around a poor story and two-dimensional characters.

I'm neither here nor there on Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. I do feel it's slightly overrated, but it's still a good film.

Oh, and American Beauty is utter brilliance. You just can't knock it!

 

[Monkey Butler]

What he said. Although, I'd also add the fight choreography.

And I'd also like to know how you could call Silence of the Lambs over-rated, especially when compared to Red Dragon and Hannibal.

And DuckofDoom, it's probably best to know what you're talking about before you say anything.

 

[Benny_]

Red Dragon and Hannibal are not overrated, because they're not highly rated in the first place. Silence of the Lambs simply never creeped me out the least bit. I didn't find Hannibal Lector as compelling a character as everyone else seems to.