Leni Riefenstahl 'assess' q (1 Viewer)

[Leanne]

hey all!!

i was trying to look for some examples as how some people answered the 'assess' question in the HSC for Leni....

Does anyone have any past papers of your own or hsc to email me so that i have some idea how to answer this question????

i bombed out in both the assessment and trials for this q...i just want to get it right!!!

thanx!

 

[Bucko]

What I've noticed is that the 2 Leni questions are always the same, just worded a little differently. When saying 'assess' it's usually used in conjunction with the cultural effects on germany. What you need to do is explain what Leni did, and say how it effected German culture, and of course back it up with quotes and sources.

 

[meh]

think about her movies after and including Triumph of the Will

What was her contribution to Nazi propaganda
- the fact that it would have been created anyway
- Her intentions to create art vs her relationship with hitler (close one)

How did she promote Volksgenmeinschafte
- examine the film Trimph - the soldiers are identical, the move/speak in unison - promoting the idea of a community

how does she contribute to hitler's fuhrer myth
- undershots of him lookng like a demi g-d
- him flying into Triumph on a plane from the heavens

how does she promote racist ideology
- her movie olimpia featured the beauty of Aryan bodies and not many black (althought there were blacks in the olympics)
- her proliferation of the beauty of the body as Aryan
- her relation with Hitler Geobles, seems almost unlikely she could remain impartial in her works

i hope this helps u a little

 

[spin spin sugar]

Originally posted by meh
how does she promote racist ideology
- her movie olimpia featured the beauty of Aryan bodies and not many black (althought there were blacks in the olympics)

thats a crock.. in fact in my response i tend to weigh up the evidence on both sides and i use the obsession with jesse owens' body evident in olympia as an example for how it may not support nazi ideals. shiiit. she focussed on him in particular and had lots of close ups of his body because she thought it was perfect.

 

[meh]

well let me begin on comending you on your uttermost subtelty regarding my advice.

I can confidently inform you that it 'is not a crock' as I have watched Olympia and it is clearly a nationalistic, beauty of the Aryan body promotional film. This does not mean that she was a die hard nazi, but it does indicate the extent to which she embraced nazi culture and ideals, and thus demonstrates how she put foward those ideas in her film -like a vicious cycle.

secondly, yes she does have shot of the bodies of many black athletes, however a) there were not many to focus on b) do not argue on the fact that she concentrated on the white Aryans more c) the whole point of her looking at the beauty of the body is IN ITSELF a promotion of German nationalism.

film proceeds to a tribute to the glories of Ancient Greece her architecture, her art and to the beauty of the athletes body. Even Riefenstahl appears on screen as a nude as one of the athletes. She concentrates on the beauty of the body, not on exuding racism. As Riefenstahl herself states I had total artistic and financial control and therefore it is highly unlikely her films made a significant contribution to the dissemination of Nazi racial policy. However, this issue is not black and white. The film focuses on the glory of the human body but more particularly that of the so called master-race. Hitler encouraged worship of the classical Greek body as the pinnacle of racial perfection, and Olympia unquestioningly corroborates this interest. One of the more noteworthy scenes at establishing racist elements in the film is the torchs journey from Mount Olympus to Berlin, suggesting that the new Nazi regime is the new Olympia, in a political and racial sense.
The remained of the film covers the track and field events with stunning brilliance, and concludes with the famous diving sequence. In these arrangements the Aryan race does dominate the screen, but the reason given for this is that the Olympics were held in Germany and therefore naturally had fewer African-American and other competitors. This was Riefenstahls main line of defence, that she was trying to capture the Games and as a consequence mostly filmed people of Aryan dissent simply because there was more of them.

 

[sugared plum]

meh have you really watched 'olympia', or have you just read p. 40 of "Individuals in Modern History" by Samantha L. Frappell?

 

[Leanne]

u no wat? at our school we didnt watch either film- we only watched 'the wonderful, horible life of Leni Riefenstahl'...therefore, how can we possibly know what we're talking bout??

p.s thanx for the advice meh, but its a lot to include in a 20 min essay isnt it?

 

[sugared plum]

You don't necessarily have to watch the films to know what you're talking about. My point is, don't copy out slabs of study guides to pretend that you have.

Most wouldn't agree with this -

Originally posted by meh
secondly, yes she does have shot of the bodies of many black athletes, however a) there were not many to focus on b) do not argue on the fact that she concentrated on the white Aryans more c) the whole point of her looking at the beauty of the body is IN ITSELF a promotion of German nationalism.

Stephen Schiff in his "Leni's Olympia" Vanity Fair Sep 1992, writes: "critics who have tried to find propaganda or ideology in [Olympia]have never made a convincing case: the movie's American champions are lauded as forcefully as its Germans, and if the film has a star, it's not some Aryan paragon, but the black American athlete Jesse Owens."

The article on Riefenstahl in "Current Biography Yearbook" pub. HW Wilson in 1975 affirms this view: "Although Goebbels reportedly ordered her to play down the achievements of 'non-Aryan' athletes, she impartially recorded the victories of all races and nationalities. In fact, the record-breaking feats of the great black American track start Jesse Owens are among the highlights of 'Olympia'."

In "Wherever you may run, you cannot escape him": Leni Riefenstahl's Self-Reflection and Romantic Transcendence of Nazism in Tiefland, Robert von Dassanowsky writes, "Her open break with Goebbels and the National Socialist ideology came in the form of her obsession with Jesse Owens, her highlighting of the individual efforts (decathlon, marathon race, equestrians, etc.) over celebration of the masses or mass athletic events, and her showcasing of 'successful male and female athletes of all races, nations, and colours ... in a Germany which was then singularly undemocratic.' (Riefenstahl)"

What meh is trying to argue for is the notion of the 'fascist aesthetic' in film. Susan Sontag wrote an article on this. In her view, all of Riefenstahl's work conforms to a set of "themes of Nazi ideology: the contrast between the clean and the impure, the incorruptible and the defiled, the physical and the mental, the joyful and the critical."

Ultimately, I don't agree that this analysis holds true across Riefenstahls career. As von Dassanowsky put it, "the use of her cinema codes in Olympia and Tiefland demonstrates that Riefenstahl had changed both her mind and much of her ideology."

 

[meh]

then ur all living in a fantasy world. she's as guilty as anything and a terrible liar

and yes, that info i pasted was my own words ya idiots, ofcourse i used a book and adapted alot of it. however yes i have watched it and yes, i still think that her film portrays everything it is to be nazi/aryan and that she threw in blacks for good measure

it is utterly absurd to say she was so close to the heart of nazism yet remained 'her own' artist. Why would she spend 2 years editting for virtually nothing, why would she not include sequences of Hitler who was widely reported to have hated the Olympics and hated attending. Do you think the media would avoid filming a national leader who was thoroughly uncomforatble and annoyed while sitting at the Olympic Games now days? Ofcourse not. She knew she had to conform to the culture and even more so unknowingly conformed. Took two years for her to be proclaimed de-Nazified, two years!

Anyway, my point is, is that as a propagandist, yes she had her input whether knowingly or unknowingly, and yes Triumph of the Will was like the 6th watched film in Nazi Germnay, but my main point is that the propaganda machine was working well without her, and would have created and did create the HItler Myth and the image of conformity without her help. So yes, she contributed to it through her lack of filming blacks and what not but Aryans still would have the same opinion with or without Olympia.

Also about the comment "changed both her mind and much of her ideology" even Riefensthl herelf would argue this because SHE HAD NO IDEOLOGY TO SPEAK OF. If you believe her claims, you would believe the fact that she was an artist and was not interest in political mtters. Therfore, how it possible to change somthing that is non-existent in the first place?

 

[HannieStar]

-Read Goebbell's diaries- thats a fucking brilliant indication of her guilt
-There is no way she could not have know what was going on in Germany
-She used Nazi resources to set up a film production company in order to make her films

-I haven't read a single study guide for this, just used the syllabus, the films, and historian's books which are not HSC supplements. I have come to similar conclusions to Meh.

However, you guys are all entitled to your own opinions, this is what history is about. However, there is no need to be mean to Meh.

 

[HannieStar]

I just reread some of those posts- So because she uses some historian's opinions, she hasnt formed her own. Then what have you used? It is a historiographical argument, Meh is perfectly legitimate here.

So you don't agree with her Sugaredplums- fine, just don't accuse her of not researching.

 

[Benno]

who cares she is dead any way not like we have to do an essay on her in 4 days, oh fuck!

 

[sugared plum]

No-one has been mean to Meh. She said "ur all living in a fantasy world ... ya idiots" when all I said was that 'Olympia' should not necessarily be considered in terms of Riefenstahl's promotion of Nazi racial ideology.


I never accused Meh of not researching - I pointed out she'd plagiarised, and therefore perhaps has never watched the videos of 'Olympia'.

 

[spin spin sugar]

*whip noise*

go sugar!

 

[lazybum]

riefenstahl

wow what a whole loada infomation!!!
don't ask why but leni is my hardest part in modern history and i do ext as well.... does anyone have a written sect. 2 on Leni they can send me coz i just can't do the assess. part, how the hell do u structure it in 10 min or whatever that we're supposed to do it in ???

 

[lazybum]

riefenstahl

wow what a whole loada infomation!!!
don't ask why but leni is my hardest part in modern history and i do ext as well.... does anyone have a written sect. 2 on Leni they can send me coz i just can't do the assess. part, how the hell do u structure it in 10 min or whatever that we're supposed to do it in ???

 

[HannieStar]

Whatever- I just don't get why people are being so hostile on this forum. We are mean't to be helping each other, not criticising each other.

Ugh- I sound like Oprah......be nice, discover your spirit! Hahah.

Just be nice to each other.

And implying that she hasn't watched the films essentially implies she hasnt researched to me. Maybe I misinterpreted the post. Sorry...

 

[jo87]

-Read Goebbell's diaries- thats a fucking brilliant indication of her guilt
-There is no way she could not have know what was going on in Germany
-She used Nazi resources to set up a film production company in order to make her films

-I haven't read a single study guide for this, just used the syllabus, the films, and historian's books which are not HSC supplements. I have come to similar conclusions to Meh.

However, you guys are all entitled to your own opinions, this is what history is about. However, there is no need to be mean to Meh.

i totally agree with you, she was an opportunist, although she didn't like the films she was doing, at lest she was getting paid for it. And plus, without Hitlers's propagada films, i don't think Leni would be the same person.