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Judaism (1 Viewer)

jnothman

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WHOOPS!!! I meant it the other way!

All Kosher food is Halal, but not the other way.... I'm editing the original... Ouch.

I hadn't had enough sleep. My usual excuse.

And eljay, if you want to join a movement, then do!
 

soha

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mz_purfect said:
wow I never knew that! does this mean Jews can eat Halal food but Muslims cant eat Kosher? Also, where does Moses (pbuh) come into the picture? Is he more than just a prophet?

Cheers.
muslims can eat kosher meat
not that ive ver come across a kosher butcher
 

jnothman

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mz_purfect said:
Also, where does Moses (pbuh) come into the picture? Is he more than just a prophet?
Ok... What can be said about Moses? I guess he is not more than a prophet. He is seen as a leader unlike any other, and a role model, particularly in his character of humility. In the closing words of the Torah (the Pentateuch at least) Deuteronomy 34:10 says "there has not risen another prophet in Israel that knew G-d face to face".

A couple of other ideas have come up to note on:
The Muslim PBUH = "Peace be upon him" used to refer to the deceased is also used by the Jews. Particularly Eastern Jews use (and have used for many hundreds of years) the Hebrew "Alav Hashalom", with meaning the same as PBUH. Western Jews prefer "Zichrono Livracha" = "May his name be blessed" or "Zichrono Tzadik Livracha" = "May his righteous name be blessed".

Also on my use of "G-d". Jewish law believes very much in putting fences around doing wrong things. As stated in the Ten Commandments, one may not use G-d's name in vain. And so we do not even usually write the word g.o.d, and all other references have similar shortcuts to avoid using the term unnecessarily. Although a four letter name is commonly used to refer to G-d in the bible, Jews to not pronounce it and have even lost all knowledge of its proper pronunciation.
 

jnothman

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soha said:
not that ive ver come across a kosher butcher
Well there used to be two in Sydney. Now I think there's one. So no huge surprise. There are a few general supermarkets around that have a kosher foods section, particularly in some parts of the Eastern Suburbs, the North Shore and I think one Coles in the city.
 

mz_purfect

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jnothman said:
A couple of other ideas have come up to note on:
The Muslim PBUH = "Peace be upon him" used to refer to the deceased is also used by the Jews. Particularly Eastern Jews use (and have used for many hundreds of years) the Hebrew "Alav Hashalom", with meaning the same as PBUH.
Yeah in Arabic, we say Alaikum Salam after any Prophet's names to imply blessings, honours and graces to them from Allah

Although a four letter name is commonly used to refer to G-d in the bible, Jews to not pronounce it and have even lost all knowledge of its proper pronunciation.
So does that mean that Jews make no reference to God whatsoever, as in when you pray, even then you dont call up on Him? I'm just a bit confused here. Sorry mate!
 

soha

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jnothman said:
Well there used to be two in Sydney. Now I think there's one. So no huge surprise. There are a few general supermarkets around that have a kosher foods section, particularly in some parts of the Eastern Suburbs, the North Shore and I think one Coles in the city.
well heaps of food i buy..like tinned foods etc
i see it says kosher on it
and soem even say halal etc
someone told me there was a butcher in bondi..etc
nehow..theres halal butchers everywhere
and is kosher a big deal..like do you restrict yourself to only kosher foods..or u dont care as much
do u know many jews that are strict...or they dont care
 

jnothman

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mz_purfect said:
Yeah in Arabic, we say Alaikum Salam
I thought Alaikum means upon you, not upon him/them? Anyway, it doesn't matter.

mz_purfect said:
So does that mean that Jews make no reference to God whatsoever, as in when you pray, even then you dont call up on Him?
That's alright: it's a bit confusing! No, in prayer we do make reference. But while "Allah" means the word "G-d", according to the Hebrew bible, there is also an actual name for G-d, which we do not say; the "ineffable name". This name is never said. In prayer and some study, we say alternative references, such as "El" or "Elohim" = "G-d", or "Adonai" (which we say instead of the ineffable name) which means "My Lord". But then at other times, we use other words, such as "Hashem" which means "the name" or "haqadosh barukh hu" = "the Holy One, Blessed be He" or "hamakom" = "the Omnipresent". And while we will speak the word G-d, we do not write it, as things with G-d's name written on them one cannot throw out, rather one has to dispose of such items more respectfully with a burial.

soha said:
and is kosher a big deal..like do you restrict yourself to only kosher foods..or u dont care as much
do u know many jews that are strict...or they dont care
Since being Jewish is often more of a national than a religious thing, most Jews are not strict at all. Some keep simple restrictions, like not eating pig or seafood or foods with meat and milk together, or even only eating kosher meat, but this is not to the fullness of the Jewish law (Halakha). Some will strictly go to only kosher restaurants, and only eat foods as specified on a kosher list.

Many foods are restricted in Australia because of the production of oils here: vegetable oils are often produced on the same factory lines as meat-oil blends, which makes the users of that oil unkosher and all their products. Some are even more strict ("chalav yisrael"), and only eat dairy products that have been made from milk that has been strictly watched (to ensure that no one put any pig's milk in it, etc).

I myself am not so strict, although I do for the most part eat only kosher foods. In particular, I may eat at a vegetarian/vegan restaurant, but will not eat cooked vegetarian foods at a meat restaurant or household since the cooking utensils are also used to cook unkosher meats, etc. I am also fine with having a coffee out and trust that the milk is fine.

There are significant religious Jewish communities in Australia and around the world (well, significant compared to the small sizes of the Jewish communities themselves) that do keep strictly kosher. There are about 7 kosher restaurants in Sydney, pretty much all in the Bondi area, but the complications of keeping kosher and the need to close for most religious holidays makes staying financially viable difficult, and so this is a rapidly chaning market.
 

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jnothman said:
That's alright: it's a bit confusing! No, in prayer we do make reference. But while "Allah" means the word "G-d", according to the Hebrew bible, there is also an actual name for G-d, which we do not say; the "ineffable name". This name is never said. In prayer and some study, we say alternative references, such as "El" or "Elohim" = "G-d", or "Adonai" (which we say instead of the ineffable name) which means "My Lord". But then at other times, we use other words, such as "Hashem" which means "the name" or "haqadosh barukh hu" = "the Holy One, Blessed be He" or "hamakom" = "the Omnipresent". And while we will speak the word G-d, we do not write it, as things with G-d's name written on them one cannot throw out, rather one has to dispose of such items more respectfully with a burial.
woah..that's like us..if we write God's name on paper it can't just be thrown away..it has to be respectfully disposed i.e. buried, burned, or thrown into the sea...not to some landfill full of gross stuff.

plus i've heard that jewish people, like muslims, respect the actual written version of their holy book a lot...muslims cant drop the Qu'ran on the floor, or throw it around or just stash it on the book shelf somewhere, we keep it with a lot of pride and respect, sometimes in book covers made of silk or nice material.
 

jnothman

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tangerinespeedo said:
if we write God's name ... it has to be respectfully disposed i.e. buried, burned, or thrown into the sea...
I think our only option is buried... I've never heard of the other two. Interesting. I wasn't sure if others had it.

tangerinespeedo said:
plus i've heard that jewish people, like muslims, respect the actual written version of their holy book a lot...
Well, to two (or more) different levels. The scroll of the Five Books of Moses (the Torah or Pentateuch, part of the "Old Testament" as Christians call it) - called a "sefer torah" - is copied out by special scribes onto parchment, as a scroll rather than a book. It is dressed, often with a belt, a cover and a crown, which can be fairly ornate [and also often carries the pointing "hand" - called a "yad", like in Arabic - used to read from it] and is treated with great respect. They are housed in special arks, one stands when it is raised or carried or often even when the ark is open at all, when brought out in synagogue it is kissed by the congregation. It is also not allowed to be moved, eg in a car or plane, unless held.

Other written and printed holy texts or books of prayer must be kept at least about 25 centimetres off the ground, and should not have non-holy books or anything else on top of them. They are often kissed when finished being used, and should not be placed upside-down.
 

ihavenothing

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Theres about 3 kosher businesses in bondi and theres a big one on mona vale road in St Ives (u cant miss it). kosher meat can also be found in coles (coles i think is jewish owned) and woolies snives, bondi jct, gordon, bondi, double bay and a few other places in the eastern suburbs and north shore.

Kosher is really damn strict with cleanliness laws much more than halal and classifies ignorantly all seafood as "fish" *duh* which pisses me off neway as i think to be loyal to god u don't need to be overly afraid of minor things like that which is y i classify myself as agnostic as all organised religions seem to have so many problems and conflicts stemming from it.
 

jnothman

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ihavenothing said:
Theres about 3 kosher businesses in bondi
More, even if you're only counting restaurants and not yet bakers, butchers, etc. Oh, but groceries, yes I guess there are two.
ihavenothing said:
and theres a big one on mona vale road in St Ives (u cant miss it)
This I don't know. I heard there's some shop of South African ownership that sells kosher food but not exclusively (ie also non-kosher food)... but i don't know.

ihavenothing said:
kosher meat can also be found in coles (coles i think is jewish owned)
Not entirely... searching for it, a Coles Myer report of 1999 includes three clearly Jewish Directors on the Board: Messrs Liebler, Lew and Myer. This does not quite mean Jewish owned, as it is a public company... Still, a number of Woolworths and Franklins shops nowadays also have Kosher sections if the locals want it.



Well your disgusting comment on tel aviv mansions (hardly bombed) wasn't worth the dignity of replying to, but I'll reply to some of your later comments.


ihavenothing said:
Kosher is really damn strict with cleanliness laws much more than halal
Yes, it is.

ihavenothing said:
and classifies ignorantly all seafood as "fish" *duh*
You may not have noticed, but the laws pertaining to this were not written in English originally. If you classify "different language and approximate translations" as ignorance, then I would call you the ignorant.

ihavenothing said:
neway as i think to be loyal to god u don't need to be overly afraid of minor things like that
Who said it was all about loyalty to G-d? I don't think (I may be wrong) any of the laws relating to keeping kosher are followed by a remark like "I am the Lord your G-d". No, rather, that follows commands like "Love your neighbour as yourself", and still does one do that out of loyalty to G-d?
I think you're getting things confused, coming from a Christianised and Westernised background in viewing the world. Maybe the stringencies in Judaism identify that one has to be careful with even the smallest of actions, as well as the big ones; that it is not enough just to have intent and not action; that just as we must be extraordinarily careful about what goes into our mouths, we must ensure every bit of what comes out of our mouths. Just because you come from a background which doesn't recommend a strict way of life, it doesn't mean you should snub it off and not examine its advantages philosophically.

ihavenothing said:
which is y i classify myself as agnostic as all organised religions
Seems strange to classify your theological stance on the basis of whether or not you agree with practice associated with theology. Shouldn't one's belief at least be independent of what they think of the practices of believers?
 

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