Debunking myths of elite learning (1 Viewer)

[Phanatical]

In the 2002 HSC (my year)

Advanced English: 13300 female / 8272 male / 21572
Standard English: 19421 female / 21883 male / 41304 total
ESL: 1060 female / 1076 male / 2136 total

33781 female candidates, 31231 male candidates - 51% female.

 

[Mambomeg]

51% female is hardly an astounding majority. Like sarah said, maybe its due to the ract that in general more males drop out in year 10 and go on to do apprentiships and trades. I also agree that male rights are not being downplayed, female rights are simply being promoted.

In my course its 80% women, but 50 years ago it was 80% men. Times change, how can you complain that thats unfair? in 50 years time it may well be 80% men again. My course is a science course, so, stereotypically should be filled with men, but it's not.

The HSC is designed to give everyone equal opportunity to do well. Many girls dont do well in english either, i myself was better at science, and i hated english, but i still did well and got into uni, so how can u whinge that it was unfair for males, when many males do extremely well in english and other humanities subjects? No offence but in an english speaking country, its fair that english is a compulsory subject. In reality, the Australian education system in a lot more lenient than other countries like france where they have all compulsory subjects. you really cant whinge that males arent getting a fair go.

 

[Phanatical]

I'm not criticising the areas in which the HSC assesses. I'm criticising the way that concepts are taught in schools, and whether these are in fact turning male students away from continuing their education. I know one extremely bright person in particular who left school at 15 because the teaching methods were so far removed from what stimulated him academically, that he was in fact violent and hyperactive because of it. Now he's a brickie with a hernia.

I believe if the school system was more male friendly (especially in the earlier years), then the retention rate for male students would be much higher, and there would be less disparity between scores for males and females as a group.

In my opinion, the fact that our universities are becoming even more female friendly is pushing out males into more "appropriate" (for their gender) areas of study (outside the uni) - and even now the women are starting to move into areas traditionally occupied by men. For example, my good friend who studies the BMus in Electronic Music at the Melba Conservatorium. She tells me that because of "women's needs", she's getting more and more advantage in completing her studies than her male classmates. In her course there was even a minimum quota of women which had to be filled, so there might have been some other guy who missed out on a place because my friend was female.

That's politically-correct equal opportunity bullshit. Female quotas don't make sense, yet we have them. Hell, that's one of the reasons why men go into trades - because society expects it of them, and doesn't want to encourage them to continue into tertiary education.

 

[clairegirl]

That's politically-correct equal opportunity bullshit. Female quotas don't make sense, yet we have them. Hell, that's one of the reasons why men go into trades - because society expects it of them, and doesn't want to encourage them to continue into tertiary education.

LOL thats like saying... aboriginals shouldn't get funding from the government because they're not discriminated against lolol there's reasons and statistics behind why policies such as female quotas exists...

the best lecturer i've ever had, said "if you treat everyone the same, your discriminating"... think about it...

 

[Phanatical]

It's Nothing like saying that. Those reasons and statistics you talk about justifying female quotas are flawed statistics, which don't look at all sides of the argument.

 

[Lexicographer]

LOL thats like saying... aboriginals shouldn't get funding from the government because they're not discriminated against lolol there's reasons and statistics behind why policies such as female quotas exists...

the best lecturer i've ever had, said "if you treat everyone the same, your discriminating"... think about it...

Claire, adding "think about it" to a nonsense statement doesn't make it profound. Consder the definition of discrimination - to discriminate between two things is to find difference between them, and discrimination in the political sense is to treat things or people unequally based on those differences.

Treating everyone the same makes no account of these differences and hence involves no discrimination.

 

[Sarah]

That's politically-correct equal opportunity bullshit. Female quotas don't make sense, yet we have them. Hell, that's one of the reasons why men go into trades - because society expects it of them, and doesn't want to encourage them to continue into tertiary education.

And what do you base this (society expectations argument) on?

 

[clairegirl]

"It's Nothing like saying that. Those reasons and statistics you talk about justifying female quotas are flawed statistics, which don't look at all sides of the argument."

What statistics am i talking about? i haven't specified any so you can't know if they're flawed, your basing your argument that they're flawed because they don't agree with your argument.

are you saying years of research work, reports, experiments are all wrong?? I mean i could understand if they were one offs but they've been checked and experiments replicated again and again and they've mostly turned out all the same.

 

[clairegirl]

Claire, adding "think about it" to a nonsense statement doesn't make it profound. Consder the definition of discrimination - to discriminate between two things is to find difference between them, and discrimination in the political sense is to treat things or people unequally based on those differences.

Treating everyone the same makes no account of these differences and hence involves no discrimination.

I can see where your comming from, when i first read it... i was like wtf! but yeh i got it after a while

discrimination: "unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice" heheh i just looked that up in dictionary.com

Look at what i said from a different perspective... say boys and girls, minorities, disadvantaged youths, rich poor, blah blah blah etc... they're all different, they have different opportunities presented to them, their biology is different, different upbringing, different languages blah blah etc...hence their needs are all different for eg it's proven that girls work more effectively in collaborative environments (of course there are individual differences but yeh thats the norm) Krause et al (2004, Educationsychological context ... i did educational psychology this semester so yeah....
Thus if we were to treat everyone the same (regardless of their differneces), "it would result in an unfair treatment of a person or group on the basis of prejudice (thinking that everyone's the same)"

 

[clairegirl]

sorry for the blah blahs etc etc lol im pretty tired but yeh hope u can see where i'm comming from.

 

[Phanatical]

You'll notice that in most studies regarding female disadvantage, the only respondants are male. You'll also notice that most of these studies are commissioned by women's groups, to show a certain result.

 

[Phanatical]

The following information from a series of articles by Joe Manthey, director of Kid Culture in the Schools, in America. Non-quoted material is my own emphasis:


According to a study published in August 2001 by the Harvard School of Public Health, "one in five female students reported being physically abused and/or sexually assaulted by a dating partner". What sort of conclusions can we make from this?

How about if we point out that in a separate study by the American Centre for Disease Control, 22% of high school students were victims of an assault, with girls being "slightly" (their term) more likely than boys to have violence directed against them by an intimate partner.

CDC (who surveyed both boys and girls):
"An equal number of boys and girls experienced as well as initiated abuse"

Harvard (who didn't survey a single male):
"the portion of dating violence perpetrated by female partners is likely to be small.''


There's more: A review of published studies of both high school and college student dating violence found that, "rates for less serious acts (slapping, etc.) were very variable between studies, reported by 13 to 61 percent of the high school and college students. The most serious types of violence, such as threatening with or using a weapon, were much less common with prevalence rates ranging from 1 to 4 percent."

Self defense?
(American) National Family Violence Survey: researchers find that females initiate minor and severe assaults at a rate similar to that of males.

 

[Phanatical]

Some more statistics (Gurian):

The majority of adolescent alcoholics and drug addicts are male.

Adolescent males are four times more likely to commit suicide. Suicide success rates for boys are rising; suicide rates for girls have dropped 50 percent since 1970. Not only are they the primary victims of violence in the schools, buy they exhibit the majority of academic problems as well. Statistically, there is only one area of healthy activity where males out number females: sports.

Boys are twice as likely as girls to be diagnosed as learning disabled. Two-thirds of high school special-education and handicapped students are male. Adolescent males drop out of high school at four times the rate of peer females. (This includes females who drop out to have babies.)

Ninety percent of discipline problems in schools are males, as are most suspensions and expulsions. Boys on the average receive lower grades than girls. The minority of salutatorians now are male. Boys are significantly more likely than girls to die before the age of 18, not just from violent causes but from accidental death and disease.

Boys are significantly more likely than girls to die at the hands of their parents or stepparents.

Adolescent boys are 15 times more likely than adolescent girls to be victims of violent crime.

Boys are four times more likely than peer females to be diagnosed as emotionally disturbed. The majority of juvenile mental patients are male.

Most of the longest lasting and deadliest mental problems experienced by children are experienced by adolescent males.

Boys significantly outnumber girls in diagnoses of most conduct disorders, thought disorders and brain disorders.

One out of five males reports having been sexually abused by the age of 18. The actual amount is much higher.

 

[clairegirl]

i see where your comming from phanatical... your saying guys have it tougher than chix... but all your statistics have nothing to do with discrimination in the workforce...

 

[Not-That-Bright]

You be an apprentice tradesman, then be some secretary with a horny boss and u tell me which is worse....

Getting a bit sexually harassed, or being worked to hell and treated like shit for years?

 

[Jago]

with the sexual harassment, you can sue them for thousands...$$

 

[Phanatical]

Yeah, and as an apprentice, you can end up with a hernia like that friend I mentioned earlier. All that money he saved working, ended up paying for the operation.

You'll notice in those statistics it also talks about how women initiate sexual assault pretty much on par with men. Different context yes, but I believe the statistics will show that the trend holds true even in the workforce.

 

[Phanatical]

The Biggest inherant flaw of feminism today is that the Feminist movement seeks to punish the son for the sins of the proverbial father. It's men of generations past who benefitted from inequality in society. And young men of today are being disadvantaged because of this perceived "injustice" towards women as a solid movement.

This is why we need a masculist movement to reverse the trend and to counter the bullshit ideology of the feminist movement. Feminism = Masculism = Universal Human Rights. You deny males representation and help in society, and you completely miss the point of human rights transcending boundaries of gender or race.

 

[Not-That-Bright]

We don't need a Masculist movement.... females are inherently subservient in alot of ways.

 

[Phanatical]

But males are increasingly facing disadvantage in society as well, Especially males of non-white backgrounds. In schools, we don't do as well (not because we're dumber, but because school systems are designed for females), 90% of custody cases are won by the mother, males aren't encouraged to go into universities, the overwhelming population in our prisons is male. These are just some of the Many problems that men are facing in today's society. We need to address these problems, because the feminist movement is ensuring that they keep piling up.